Trad shoe

[mzvarner]

So I use the La Sportiva Miura VS for sport and bouldering. I'm looking into a trad shoe I'm thiking maybe the katana lace up or the TC pro ( how do these climb.) Any suggestions

[summitchaserCJB]

La Sportiva Mythos is a great all around shoe. (get it small though) The anasazi slipper deal also works pretty well-I haven't tested it in the long run though but it performs well for a cheap shoe. Scarpa Techno is also a gem.

Edited May 7, 2010 by summitchaserCJB

[Dane]

Depends on what you want/call a "trad" shoe. Mythos do climb most terrain well but is not a trad shoe in any form. It is a laced slipper. Edging performance depends on how tightly they are fit to support edging or loose for comfort.

 

Mythos stretch generally a full size if you can stand the pain till they do.

 

Most trad shoes are board lasted with a leather or synthetic mid sole. Which is why they will edge so well and offer some comfort and support in cracks. The TC Pro is good as is the Boreal Ace, Equinox, Ballet and the Tradmaster. Same reason many of the old Boreals and Sportiva trad shoes bring high dollars on ebay. Easy to resole and they last almost forever. Lots of support and they climb well.

 

Crertainly not in vogue these days but the Ace rocks for long crack climbs. Not the place many will be using a Mythos. The trick going from a sport shoe to a trad shoe is no longer being on point. It is all about more comfort. Trad shoes should fit with your toes snug, not folded.

 

Lost of examples here:

http://www.mtntools.com/cat/rclimb/rshoes/02rshoes.htm

[summitchaserCJB]

Thats funny, because most trad climbers I know use them. Learn something new every day.

[summitchaserCJB]

uhh...not trying to get in a fight here buddy. Aparently you are.

[summitchaserCJB]

They are an all around shoe.

[hafilax]

I'm a fan of the Scarpa Technos. Kind of an updated Mythos (designed by the same person AFAIK).

[marc_leclerc]

Techno's are good.... but honestly! for hard trad I have really liked La Sportiva Muira lace ups, and Acopa Merlins, get the Merlin tight, it will stretch.

 

You need a shoe that can edge and jam thin cracks well,you must have a not 'too' boxy of toe. You need some support for jamming in cracks but good technique goes a long way. For example I jammed the Split Pillar (just an example of a long crack) in brand new tight Muira's with no discomfort. The toe of the shoe doesn't do much in wider cracks, decently thick leather shoes are nice for wider cracks.

 

Thin granite cracks that are sub 5.13 tend to be less than vertical, or just vertical. You must remember on these climbs that you are not just jamming a crack, but climbing a slab, so for these climbs your shoe must be decent for edging & smearing. A nice pointed big toe goes a very long way on these routes too.

 

So in other words for trad, you will be climbing hand sized and wider cracks so a leather shoe is nice and comfy, you will be climbing less than vertical and thin cracks, so a strong big toe and good edging go a long way, if you live in an area with steep gear routes like the gunks you also want a good edging shoe to hold you in on those overhangs.

 

So bacially IMO, the Muira lace ups, Acopa Merlins and Techno's are great.. in exactly that order

[Coldfinger]

Well all I know is La Sportiva, so here goes.....

 

The TC is too much $$, and if you're used to bouldering and sport, might be a bit overbuilt for you.

 

The most important thing is fit and the shoe's last, so if you really liked the VS for fit go with the Miura, otherwise if you have a narrow foot Katana should fit. I have big feet (forefoot) and had a hard time even trying velcro Katanas on. The VS has a lot more downturn than the Miura, which should feel more natural and comfortable on trad than your shoes. The Katana last seems a lot narrower and flatter, a lot less room there, and perhaps a lot less stretch from the shoes' construction.

 

I like the Miura because it is comfortable, solid on edge, versatile and still sensitive (not too much midsole). It bends well underfoot. It has stretched well and in all the right places, love the laces & big rands.

 

You might also consider a pair of slippers too, very good for thin cracks and sketchball buttery feet. Now that they've finally broken in (long and painful), my Venoms are really solid for all the feel and power required. Love the Cobras--they're back!--but I'm finding that the Venom kicks Cobra butt on hard stuff.

 

 

[Dirtyleaf]

I just bought my second pair of Muira's today. Yay for me. I'm gonna put the mythos in the closet for awhile. It's master hot sauce A1 time. Mmm. Muira's.

[Dane]

Generally the sox lasted shoes are slipper like. The Scarpa Techno is getting close to a cross over from sox to board lasted support. Obviously a huge difference between the Katana lace up or the TC pro's lasts and fit.

 

Lots of input here on current slipper technology shoes but they are not really trad shoes by the generally accepted historical definition. No question you can use any shoe on trad routes and many will then pull their shoes off at the end of every pitch. Wear a good board lasted shoe super tight as I have done and you'll still want to pull it off on long routes and rest your feet.

 

I find the comments below on true board last shoes interesting in that same historical perspective. Obviously they are not shoe designs in vogue and you won't see them in the gym. The slipper shoes were born in the Gym and originally designed for trianing to make your feet stronger.

 

"The ACE is a medium stiff, all-around, lightweight low cut shoe equally competent climbing micro-edges, thin cracks and steep friction slabs. The ACE has probably been used to put up more hard crack climbs in Yosemite and Joshua Tree than any other shoe. It is a favorite of trad climbers for its versatility and comfort - on routes ranging from one pitch crag climbs to do-it-in-a-day Grade V's and VI's. Board lasted for super support"

 

"Hans' Florine choose this shoe for his record ascent of the Nose on El Capitan - check out Masters of Stone VI for the beta! The BALLET is one of the classics and one of the few meticulously hand made, board lasted climbing shoes! Ankle high cut gives extra support for technical edging and protection in ankle eating fist and off-width cracks."

 

"Ask the man who's put more time in free climbing El Cap routes - Tommy Caldwell - and he'll tell you this is "his shoe". The TC Pro was designed to be his versatile weapon for all day, all kind climbing. " Worth pausing to think why Caldwell put his name on this particular shoe and how hard he is climbing and has for years.

 

There is a reason all three of these shoes look very similar. One of the things I agree with is technique goes a long ways on shoe will work for you. Slipper thin shoes that slot your big toe into thin cracks can be an advantage on thin finger cracks. Sometimes a huge advantage. But the older style board lasted shoes will climb them easily as well you just use different techniques. Rand smears become a way of life as do rand torques and the extra support offers more chances to face climb on small holds as well as smear the edges of thin cracks.

 

Coldfinger offers good info as well, "if you really liked the VS for fit go with the Miura". The laces will offer more support than the velcro.

 

Bachar's last trad shoe design which seems a lot like a updated Ace. The Acopa Legend.

 

 

Croft flashing .13c in '87 in the still available Boreal Ballet.

 

 

And what the Huber's think is a trad shoe Muira VS i think?

 

 

 

All this is just food for thought.

[G-spotter]

 

Croft flashing .13c .12d in '87 in the still available Boreal Ballet.

 

 

 

And Sharma climbed 13a barefoot... but that doesn't mean barefoot is the best way to climb 13a, either.

 

[Sherri]

My trad shoe has been the 5.10 V-Mile. It takes a lot of the abuse out of jamming cracks(ie--it's solid enough that your feet don't scream in pain) yet performs nicely on edges and slabs. Comfortwise, these puppies are like climbing in tennis shoes. I never feel the need to remove them between pitches on even the longest climbs in Red Rocks, and I often wear them for the walk-offs rather than hauling approach shoes up the route.

 

Rock and Ice Review of VMile

PRICE: $120.00

WEBSITE: www.fiveten.com

Issue 164

"This new kick from Five Ten is one of the best all-day all-around all-performance climbing shoes I’ve worn recently … and by a mile (ho ho). The VMile is built to go the distance on cracks, slabs, steeps—and whatever else America’s great multi-pitch areas toss your way.

Above all else, the VMile is stiff and supportive. It’s not so stiff you lose toe sensitivity, but it provides great support for torquing your feet into cracks, especially hand-sized ones. It’s no surprise that the shoe edges well because of this platform last. What was surprising, however, was when I tested the VMile on greasy limestone smears and dishes, and was able to climb nearly as well as in my high-performance sport-climbing shoes. That made me wonder why I continue to torture my feet with tiny toe-crunchers. Maybe softer shoes work a bit better on steep routes, or maybe that’s all in my masochistic mind. Life never offers easy answers.

The VMile seemed to be sized a bit bigger than other Five Ten models. I normally wear a U.S. 10 in Five Ten, and this size was a bit larger than I was expecting. That’s fine, as I really don’t want to crush my toes in an all-day crack shoe.

My favorite features of the VMile directly address some of the gripes I have with multi-pitch climbing. The VMile is easy to get on and off, especially while you’re hanging from a harness, due to two large pull tabs and a simple, functional Velcro closure system. With two Velcro straps, you can’t fine tune the shoe’s fit in the toe box, but I don’t really like laces for cracks anyway.

The shoe’s upper is proprietary leather, perforated so that it breathes well, and yet another feature that relieves at least one pain of multi-pitch climbing (smarmy, hot feet). Also, because the leather is white, I definitely noticed that the shoe was cooler while stranded at a belay, baking in the sun.

Finally, the VMile has a wedge of EVA foam beneath the heel that makes walking around more comfortable, though I doubt that a climbing shoe will ever successfully balance technical performance with the comfort and support of an approach shoe. —AB

 

 

- Andrew Bisharat

 

Editor's rating:

4 out of 5 stars"

 

[Kimmo]

So I use the La Sportiva Miura VS for sport and bouldering. I'm looking into a trad shoe I'm thiking maybe the katana lace up or the TC pro ( how do these climb.) Any suggestions

 

shit, it just depends on what "trad" you are doing. it's silly to generalize about "trad" vs "sport" vs "bouldering", since they are so damn similar in the technical end of the spectrum. hard "trad" is "bouldering", so if you're pushing your limits in "trad", wear your "bouldering" and "sport" shoes. if you're just cruising below your limits, wear something comfortable, like an old stretched out pair of whatever slippers. my most fun "trad" days have been spent in an old pair of ninjas.

[froodish]

Another vote for the V-Miles. I love mine. Really comfy, breathe well and climb better than I thought they would. Mine are holding up well too - just had them re-soled.

[stevetimetravlr]

Las Sportiva TC(Tommy Caldwell) Pro. Best granite trad shoe. Based on the Miura, but with comfort, fit, and stiffness added. this shoe is so comfortable to foot jam you won't even hesitate to stuff your toes in some heinous toe splitter. It costs more, and takes a little longer to put on correctly as the tongue has a tendency to fold, but it rocks!

[jhamaker]

Buy the shoe that fits. If it fits well then buy 3 pr. on sale.

[jmace]

Technos!! Second pair, they friction, jam, smear and the most important thing

 

they dont have a weird cup in the heel that all other shoes have that

just rides on your achilles, you actually use the lace to tighten it up, so comfy on long routes!

 

Mythos-Too soft

Miuras-Take for ever to break in and they tend to form a ripple in the leather near where the tounge is sewn on

TC's Why is the tounge sewn in just one spot at the bottom? slides around alot

Barracudas-deteriorate very quickly not worth re-soling

Syncros-awesome where did they go?

 

Never tried an acopa

 

[ryanb]

La Sportiva Mythos is a great all around shoe. (get it small though) The anasazi slipper deal also works pretty well-I haven't tested it in the long run though but it performs well for a cheap shoe. Scarpa Techno is also a gem.

 

Mythos are the rock climbing equivalent of leather telemark ski boots or maybe leashed ice tools. They work fine on moderate terrain where comfort is more of a concern then anything else, there are a couple of dudes out there that can tear it up with them but most climbers interested in doing anything remotely technical would be far better served with a modern shoe.

 

There are many shoes out there that provides much better support while edging or smedging, smear as well, jam as well with a bit of practice, stretch less, are almost as comfortable and don't need to be fit painfully tight.

 

I think the anasazi lv ("women's" shoe but c4 is a plus over the men's velcro), verde or velcro are good choice for trad and the new white anazazi's are hard to beat on thin face climbing (ie most 5.11's at index, gear or bolts). The mocasyms are good initially but stretch too much for me (i know lots of smaller people who love them though). If you prefer sportiva the katana and the miura are also great shoes.

 

[eldiente]

I'm very picky about my climbing footwear and have wasted much money trying to find a shoe that climbs well and that I can stand to be in all day. If it weren't for the pain, I'd say the Muria is the best trad shoe you can wear. Downside is that the Muria can really ruin your toes when jammed in a crack.

 

I tried the 5.10 Pitons for a few years, great crack shoe but so soft that it felt really insecure any time I had to come out of the crack to make a few faces moves.

 

Currently I'm using TC Pros and will say that they are hands-down the best shoe I've ever owned. I put in a 2,000+ foot day in them last weekend and had no pain at all. With the laces cranked down they climb almost as well as my Murias, however on easy pitches I open up the laces and feel no pain. For face climbing and crack work, they are the best I've ever used.

 

So far the only thing they don't do well is slab climb, a bit too stiff for that. Also, the laces are exposed so if you are only climbing cracks (Indian Creek) it might be worth it to get a slipper just to save your expensive shoes from the abuse. The break-in period for the TC Pros is really rough, they are stiff shoe and take a long time to loosen up. My other gripe is that they seriously take 3-5 minutes to get them on and laced up. I stopped taking the off at belays as it was taking too long to get my feet back in them.

 

-Nate

 

 

 

 

 

 

[billcoe]

TC Pro

TC Pro

TC Pro

TC Pro

 

 

Climbmax carry these? Well - I'm a hell of a lot less picky...and shoes are so damn much better than they ever were that ever the trash is better than the best of 20 years ago so WTF?:-) However, the LaSportiva Focus I bought in Paris in 1997 ? and which I've gotten resoled 6 times or so, and the other ? shoe I bought at the same time has stretched so I can wear a sock now and my foot is still loose if it's a thin one,

they work great...oh, Red Chili Spirits, (mine are in the middle, my sons Christmas present is the outer ones) but times being what they are, I need a new shoe. Or lose 25 lbs.

 

Shoe it is.

 

As far as cost, that flight to Paris was a deal at $280 bucks. With the euro/dollar change and oil increases, the TC pros don't look outrageous to me...although I did buy a pair for only $40 last time (for gym climbing) as they didn't fit my buddy Andrew....

 

Can you guys tell me what size would fit my 8-1/2 foot?

[Knottygirl]

i heart my five ten mocs (once they break in) awesome on sport and didn't bother my feet (too much) after 6 days climbin splitters.

[Crack]

I'll gladly continue to resole every stitch of life out of my last remaining pair of comfy Kaukulators, but I have been considering throwing down the cabbage and gravel for a brand new pair of tighter fitting something-just-like-Kaukalators...way at the top of my list are the Ballets, but the TC Pro and Acopa JBs are on there as well. Acopa Legends look cool too, but again, I've been hooked on my Kauks for like forever so I'm feeling like I'll probably stick with hightops...any other flat foots have any input?

[Dane]

Ace is more comparable to the Kauk in flex than the Ballet fwiw. Ballet is pretty stiff when compared to the Kauk.

 

I have to disagree Bill. Some of the best shoes from the '90s were/are still great shoes. Ace, early and later Ballets, Syncros, Kauks are not going to hold anyone back as an all around shoe. All of them seemed to me to have some distinct advantages over any of the slipper style shoes then or now.

 

But obviously not to everyone's taste these days. And as this thread shows, lots of good shoes being made now as well.

 

And like any shoe, the real issue is always fit.

[JosephH]

I have a pair of Fires, three pairs of blue Kauks, one of Anasazi slippers, one of Miuras, one of TC Pros, and two pairs of Sportiva Ventors. I only trad climb and 95% of the time I'm in the Ventors as my footwork isn't all that great anyway. I variously still use all the others (yes, even the Fires) on an as needed basis. Not sure about the TC Pros yet, though I'm thinking I don't like the rubber on them (slick) and may have them repaved.

 

And if anyone hasn't noticed, I'm looking to buy a pair of 41.5 Ventors if you have a pair you'd part with...