Randonee-VS-Mountaineer boots?

[windfaith]

Hi,

I'm trying to decide if I need to buy Randonnee Ski boots or Plastic Mountaineering boot for my ski's.

I can't afford both so I have to choose. I'm torn between Koflach Artic winter mountaineering boots or Danafit Randonnee boots.

I want a boot that I could wear for mountaineering and Randonnee skiing.Something I could wear on approach and decent to chair peak but Also puton crapons and ice climb with.

So lets say you were going to go climb Denali in Alaska and had to choose between a Plastic Mountaineering boot or a Plastic Randonnee boot. You had to hike in the boot, crampon in the boot, ice climb in the boot and ski in the boot. Which would you buy?

[slaphappy]

Check the archives, this has been discussed before. You DON'T want to ski in mountaineering boots if you expect any control, you have no forward lean. A guy mentioned straps from ski tips to the calves, it might work but... get randonee boots.

[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: slaphappy ]

[Cpt.Caveman]

If you are a skier get ski boots. If not get other boots. Slaphappy be right.

[AlpineK]

The way you ask the question is confusing. If I were climbing Denali I would bring climbing boots and crappy skis. If I went there to ski above the 14,000' camp I would bring rando boots. It sounds like you have enough interest in skiing that Rando boots are what you want. I would go with the Dynafit boots. They're better for walking.

[windfaith]

Well actually I'm a snowboarder who currently uses snowshoes for approach to when climbing peaks. I'm tired of skiiers passing me while I post hole in the snow.

So I'm taking some ski lessons so I can ski to peaks faster and have fun skiing down.

I was going to buy some plastic mountaineering boots until I got his wild idea about learning to Randonee ski.

The reason I bring up Denali is because it's a distant goal I have and I always try to keep it in mind when I buy new gear.

[erik]

2 words:

lowa structura

[AlpineK]

On a shorter trip you can deal with the extra weight of AT boots, but if I were going to Denali and planning on climbing and using skis only for approach then climbing boots are the way to go.

If Denali is a long term goal you will have plenty of time to buy both, but you sound mostly interested in sliding right now.

[slaphappy]

If your only approaching , plastic boots will work. You will not have "fun" skiing in plastic boots! get the Dynafits, good boots.

*But why do you want to go backwards and learn to ski when you already snowboard? Start running, you'll be passin skiers in no time! (Passed a few yesterday myself )

[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: slaphappy ]

[AlpineK]

Get a split board!

[windfaith]

*But why do you want to go backwards and learn to ski when you already snowboard? Start running, you'll be passin skiers in no time! (Passed a few yesterday myself )

Good point. It's just those damn flat spots and hills. Haven't figured out how to get skins to work with my board.

[slaphappy]

The transitions from boots to snowshoes to snowboard back to snowshoes etc. can suck, but the ride down...! The split board may be your solution. I can't say, I'm not gonna speculate about something I haven't done but I hear traversing on windpack is "challenging". I'll be stickin with plastics, snowshoes, snowboard, and my aluminum crampons when necessary.

[max]

My opinion:

1. If your primarily interested in sliding, get the at boots. Plastic mountaineering boots suck for control and comfort. They just don't mold the foot well enough.

2. If you interested in using as approach for climbs, MAYBE get plastic mountaineering boots. I say maybe since if you already have a pair of beefy leather climbing boots, use those for approaches. This hints at my bias towards good leather climbing boots, but the jist of the story is that plastic boots suck for skiing in, and I don't think they're that great for most climbing situations!

Bottom line: Unless you plan on a serious amount of snow slogging or doing something BIG and COLD, skip the plastics and go for AT boots.

PS: good call on the at gear!

telemark: french for "snob"

max

[windfaith]

[QB]Get a split board!

Does anyone have experience mountaineering with a spit board?

Are there any reputable places in the Seattle area that sells spit boards with skins and such?

Maybe I can skip the ski lessons!

[robertm]

Snowboard Connection in Seattle under the viaduct sells the Voile split boards. They are a great setup with the Monster skins that will climb shit that a teleboard can't. The board comes with the skins and the performance difference between a split decision and a regular board is almost nil except on piste where you will only notice a slight difference under icy conditions. The price for the board and bindings was around $1000.00 though... kinda pricy. Here is a link... you can get crampons for them too. I have the old school set up now but am looking to upgrade after snowboarding with a buddy that was using a split from the Summit of Baker last winter. (I have also used his board at Stevens and it was pretty good... my normal set up is a Morrow 165 with snowshoes)

http://www.voile-usa.com/snowboards/index.html

[Colin]

Forget the AT boots. Ski boots are a serious compromise in terms of climbing ability, and climbing boots are a serious compromise in terms of skiing ability. Since you are upgrading your setup in order to approach CLIMBS better (I assume that you will still use your snowboard when you want to get some freshies), I would definitely stick with climbing boots.

The key is to first of all get short skis (I jacked a pair of 150's off of my friend's younger sister), and second to use what I call "knee cords." A knee cord is simply a lenth of perlon that goes from the tip of your ski to a strap which is around your leg, right below the knee. You can attach it to the tip of the ski by simply taking a drill bit to the ski and making a hole (I've never had any problems with the ski being weakened). Make the system ajustable, so that you can easily "crank 'em down" for extra control.

The knee cords effectively mimic high-back ski boots, and give the control neccessary to ski well in climbing boots. I'll admit that they aren't comfortable, and you won't be skiing in good style, but you'll be ripping by all those who are falling in the snow while trying to ski in climbing boots without 'em.

I regularly ski away from climbs in my Scarpa Freneys (leather) in good time.

[windfaith]

Thanks for all the good beta!

[fleblebleb]

Hey, are you guys familiar with those alpine trekkers? They lock into your alpine bindings... see http://www.bcaccess.com/ftrek.html

Voile has two variations on the same theme to go with their split boards, see http://www.voile-usa.com/snowboards/tele_plate_binding.html and http://www.voile-usa.com/snowboards/mountain_plate_binding.html

What I want to know is, why isn't there something like this that will let me strap my tele skis to my mountaineering boots? I know the sole of the boot is fully rigid and all that, but I'm not asking for the greatest ski setup ever, I just want to be able to access winter climbs. I mean, if you could only attach the boot to the ski then who gives a damn if you lose some of the control you'd otherwise have over the back ski? You could still do the tele turn even if there would be a weird hinge there or something.

[AlpineK]

I don't mind repeating myself DO NOT TELE telemark skiing is the sport of the antichrist and Osama Bin Laden.

Seriously though, I believe manufacturers are going to introduce a new tele norm that will allow normal boots to fit into tele bindings. But that's a year or two out.

I think if you already alpine ski and snowboard then choose between a split board or an AT set up. Just think of all the lift tickets you won't have to buy to learn to tele. I know people who use climbing boots in their snowboard set up. I would say that if the tours you are doing involves a lot of flat ground then skis will always be faster than a slit board. But in the big picture they won't be that much faster.

[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: AlpineK ]

[crazy_t]

I would lean toward a split board setup for now in your case. I have a few friends who guide with a split board and boots like the old scarpa denali's, and do really well uphill and downhill. You don't need to learn a new sport, and snowboards are a great tool in the variable backcountry snow, from slush to crust to deep powder. You should find deals on split boards; "the backcountry" in lake tahoe is advertising the voile in couloir for $665, $130 for skins www.thebackcountry.net . You can probably find better deals if you poke around (don't get a splitboard "kit", the edges will de-lam).

On denali I would have mountaineering boots; don't screw around up there with your footwear; you want your feet comfortable and warm.

[Richard_Pumpington]

Windfaith,

Buy climbing boots! I've been to Denali 4 times

and can tell you that if you take AT boots there,

you will get what you deserve! Unless you are an

absolute shit-hot boarder or skier and are truely

willing to board/ski literal 'fall and die' stuff,

you will only be using them for the approach(like

most people). You also have to decide whether you

are a climber who boards/skis, or a boarder/skier

who climbs.

[freeclimb9]

Steve Koch uses Dynafit Lite AT boots with his Burton board. He told me they climb pretty good.

[Cobra]

Who the fuck is Steve Koch? Wanker at best. Get some mountain boots if you go to Alaska to climb. Get ski boots if you go there to heli ski.

[Beck]

Hey, Flebelebleb, There's a couple options you can use, but you'll have to look for them in the used gear shops.

1) Chouniard Equipment used to sell a toepiece that would fit their Riva cable binding that adapted the binding for use with mtn boots- not designed for lotsa turns.

2) NATO ski binding with adjustable toepieces are designed to fit any boot- I used these in the mid eighties with some (not fully rigid) mountain boots to tele at the lifts with, evebn took them to Colorado and they worked fine- after a couple hard seasons they degraded the welt a little bit worked just fine.

Look fot these items on old tele/ski gear, you can make it work, man.

[ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: Beck ]

[freeclimb9]

Cobra, you're ignorant. Let me enlighten you: Stephen Koch is a pretty good climber, as a matter of fact, and has done some sick shit. He's also a snowboarder, and has done some sick shit. Climb and board is what he does. He might even know what he's talking about.

Obviously, (as has been said) if you climb to board, or ski, go with the AT boot. If you ski to climb, go with climbing boots.

[Cobra]

Thanks for the information guy. I'll file it away when I think I need his advice I'll give him a call.

[ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: Cobra ]