Ponderosa Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 FYI, I often ask climbers I meet out in alpine settings if they post on CC.COM. Most say "No". Reason 1. Assholes/info ratio too high. Reason 2. Pro bolting as is evidenced by sticking a topo of a sport climb in the wilderness at the top of the "Rock Climbing" forum. And this kind of thread in general. There are a lot of trad climbers out there who do not care to associate themselves with your behavior here or in the mountains. Piss about eletism all you want. Then re-read this thread up to this point. Highschool football locker room comes to mind. Shit-for-brains is another. Your wanton drilling is self serving. I like an occaisional sport route but not every available face needs to be bolted. For those of you who do not understand the "Leave no trace" concept, sleep out in south Seattle then in a wilderness area. Tell us which one you like best. Or conversly, tell us why you promote destroying pristine environments for your own short term pleasure. Do future generations have no bearing on your behavior? If that were the mentality of previous generations we would have not wilderness areas, no National Parks. Why bother saving Index? I only have a couple good decades left there. I'm not spending my hard earned money so a bunch of youngns can climb there and call me an old fart. I'll buy plane tickets instead and go to the Valley or Squamish. There's a general paucity of good humor in myopic crusaders. Quote
olyclimber Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 why you being so hard on South Seattle bug? try sleeping out in Lynnwood. Or how about on Lake Shitty? Quote
Raindawg Posted July 30, 2009 Author Posted July 30, 2009 Dear Raindawg, and your constant, worthless drivel: Any questions? Yah...I have a question. What do YOU do for a living??? Since you're obviously embarrassed of your profession because you won't come forth, does anybody out there know this guy and want to share? He seems to have no problem ridiculing my vocation on a climbing web-site. Quote
Raindawg Posted July 30, 2009 Author Posted July 30, 2009 You obviously don't understand what I preach. I dont think any of us really do. I think you, of all people, understand exactly what I preach. You just don't like its implications. Quote
billcoe Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 I have nothing but the deepest respect for what you do for a profession. It is more interesting and important than what 90 percent of the rest of us do. Moving on - I don't think I fully understand what you preach. How do you respond to my thoughts that all El Cap routes would be impossible without bolts, and that in your view, they would all be closed as they are impossible to ascent without bolts. Every Glacier Point climbs as well which rely on bolted anchors, some very classic routes which date to the 50s and 60s. AND, if you feel that way about bolts, can we assume that pitons would be banned everywhere on public property as well? Please read this thread. http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=912351&tn=0&mr=0 Couple of old timers replacing the old crap bolts on the apron. Should all these routes be de-commisioned and erased by having the bolts removed and the holes filled? Really, I'm curious. Quote
Off_White Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Whatever it takes to make "them" go away, Bill. Quote
Bug Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 I have nothing but the deepest respect for what you do for a profession. It is more interesting and important than what 90 percent of the rest of us do. Moving on - I don't think I fully understand what you preach. How do you respond to my thoughts that all El Cap routes would be impossible without bolts, and that in your view, they would all be closed as they are impossible to ascent without bolts. Every Glacier Point climbs as well which rely on bolted anchors, some very classic routes which date to the 50s and 60s. AND, if you feel that way about bolts, can we assume that pitons would be banned everywhere on public property as well? Please read this thread. http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=912351&tn=0&mr=0 Couple of old timers replacing the old crap bolts on the apron. Should all these routes be de-commisioned and erased by having the bolts removed and the holes filled? Really, I'm curious. While it is nice of you to engage this discussion in a meaningful way, we are now in spray. Why pretend that you or the moderators here will give a different bolting perspective any respect? For example, let's say that someone truely believes thatany permanent man made product has no business in a wilderness area or National Park. While you are free to disagree, does this "radical" perspective automatically deserve to be denegrated and moved to spray? Why not post your question in a new thread in the climbing forum? This is an example of how this entire site and its moderators, and operator(s) have alienated a large sector of the climbing community. I still find it useful for some purposes but find myself respecting it less and less. Quote
Bug Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Yes. I understand your point. Chicken or the egg? Quote
billcoe Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Hi Keith. I suspect that anything short of having this discussion around a campfire: face to face, will result in a sprayfest with some dick eventually insulting the profession, work choice, mother and questionable ancestry of some others no matter where it starts out. Sadly. For myself, I will refrain from pulling out my stock photos. These below are not stock, and I thought they'd help the stoke, so here's some of those guys replacing the old bolts on the Apron copied over. That's a hook there, not a bolt. regards to all: Quote
Ponderosa Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 it's spelled "moran" OK, then he's also, a Dumas. Quote
Bug Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 I have seen too many friendships dissolve over this issue. Cheers Bill. Quote
Bug Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 it's spelled "moran" OK, then he's also, a Dumas. Hey look! There are handholds all the way down. When you two are done dorking each other for cash you can climb down and start on yur mom. (Thanks for the idea Bill ) Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 I have seen too many friendships dissolve over this issue. Cheers Bill. True dat. Zombiism hits hard. Quote
Ponderosa Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Glad to see you're finally comin' 'round to some levity. I have seen too many friendships dissolve over this issue. Really..."too many"? If an issue like this is sufficient to splinter a friendship, it wasn't much of a friendship to begin with. Quote
Bug Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 I have seen too many friendships dissolve over this issue. Cheers Bill. True dat. Zombiism hits hard. Your snorkel seems to be attached to you on both ends. This would explain your confusion. Quote
The_Rooster Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Chicken or the egg? I'm not sure but I'm thinking chicken! You tell me, buddy! Quote
The_Rooster Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Wait! It could be egg, cause that's the first thing I can remember! Quote
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