BD ATC-Sport Rant

[Blake]

I wrote this up for something else, but it came across too "ranty."

 

Does anyone actually have one of these devices or think they will stay in production?

 

One of the most ridiculous items available today is the Black Diamond ATC-Sport For those unfamiliar with the ATC- Sport, picture Black Diamond's famous tube-style belay device, the ATC. Now take this device and cut off one of the two rope slots. The result is a unique belay device with significantly fewer uses than the original ATC. Instead of moving forward, a la the new generation of auto-locking belay devices this represents a clear step back. The ATC-Sport cannot be used to rappel on two strands of a rope, cannot belay on double or twin ropes, and don't even think about auto-lock belaying your followers. Surely this lack of function must come with a few benefits like weight or cost, right? The $16.95 suggested retail price is $2 less than the standard ATC, but the single-slot ATC-Sport (60 grams) outweighs the original device by 10 grams! If one is willing to overlook the cache of a BD logo, Ocun's 41-gram Belay Device , a two-slot ATC clone, is available for only $15.95. Climbers should expect these two-slot belay devices to last much longer than an ATC-Sport, as rope wear is spread evenly over an area twice the size. However, many ATC-Sport devices will never wear out, as permanent abandonment to the back of one's gear shelf lends remarkable longevity to climbing hardwear.

[G-spotter]

If you are dumb or trendy enough to buy one, I guess you deserve it. If BD can make $$ selling to suckers, let'em.

[S1W]

I don't think BD ever expected the ATC Sport to be a hit in North America. It was produced to meet demand in the European market.

 

 

[rocky_joe]

what do you do with the other rap strand? or do us sport climbers not rap?

[S1W]

Rocky Joe,

 

Yeah, I guess that is the idea - it is to be used to belay/lower, sort of in the same situations that you would use a grigri. I dont really get it and I'm not really a fan either - I've played around with an ATC Sport and it does give a slightly better ride/catch on thinner ropes than most other ATC style devices, but not by a lot.

 

That said, I dont think that myself and many of the other climbers around here are the intended market for that rig.

 

[rocky_joe]

yeah i was kinda joking, i'd never waste my money. anyways, BD put out a real stinker with this one.

[genepires]

yeah the sport is a complete waste of time and money. I hope they lose a lot of money on that product and get there common sense back.

[TrogdortheBurninator]

i just use two atc sports to rappel. best of both worlds.

[Crillz]

They should've named it the ATC-GYM. It's obviously a gym rat device.

[John Frieh]

Does anyone actually have one of these devices or think they will stay in production?

 

Yes and yes.

[G-spotter]

what do you do with the other rap strand? or do us sport climbers not rap?

 

you tie into it and lower yourself!

[tomtom]

i just use two atc sports to rappel. best of both worlds.

 

Colorado climber.

[Blake]

I don't think BD ever expected the ATC Sport to be a hit in North America. It was produced to meet demand in the European market.

 

 

Most of the Welsh/Brit/Scottish climbers I know like to use half ropes, even for cragging. Perhaps you are talking more the sport-climbing crowd though.

 

I brought the topic up to a friend who works at BD and he said lots of the employees are even ashamed of the thing.

[Jens]

A lot of my buddies climb only in gyms.

 

Surprisingly, the device is rarely seen indoors.

 

 

[spotly]

Seems like the limited use would turn most people away. If having the extra slot ever starts bothering me, I'll just put duct tape over it

[G-spotter]

A lot of my buddies climb only in gyms.

 

No surprises here.

[Dane]

If you are dumb or trendy enough to buy one, I guess you deserve it.

 

Pardon me? OK, I just love it when some dumb ass makes a comment like this.

 

The new single BD device looks a lot like the one on the left shown here. But made current with a few obvious improvements.

 

 

"Trendy?"...ya, like 30 years old or so now. And good enough for dozens of climbs done on single ropes BITD that also required rappels to get off of like these:

 

Liberty Crack

 

 

Slipstream VI WI4+

 

 

Tsunami 5.11d R (3 pitches trad 11b, .11d, .11c R )

 

 

Clean Crack, Malmute, 5.11

 

 

Which made the new single BD ATC Sport good enough for me to use on Pineapple Express and Dragontail this winter among other things including one of the gazillion of TRs out at Vantage. Some how never needing a glove with it....which is better than either of my partners could say with what they were using.

 

 

The two pitch WI4 M6 variation on Pineapple Express

 

 

 

Mixed on Dragontail

 

 

It works just as well as anything on the market....real trick is just to be smart enough to know when and where to use it.

 

 

 

I own and climb with dbl ropes a lot, now and then. However they are not my first choice if I can do without them. Rappels? You guys ever heard of a biner brake system? When required it works wonders. Pitty the poor foul that drops his oh, so, freaking precious belay device!

[genepires]

Damn Dane, what is with the attitude? For an old guy, you do freak out on the dumbest things.

[Dane]

Second worthless thread here at CC.com on the BT ATC Sport.

 

http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/856093/Re#Post856093

 

Thought it time someone who actually has used one (for years) piss on your little camp fire with some reality.

 

I always get a attitude when people comment on climbs they haven't done and gear they haven't used. I'm funny that way, seems to come with the hard won experience.

But feel free to post pictures of you not using a Sport ATC

[spotly]

I don't think I'd go as far as to say dumb and trendy - wouldn't want to risk the public condemnation

 

But the thing does have enough limitations that I wouldn't see its usefullness for most of what I do. Maybe in the gym but heck, it's only 50 feet from the curb to the gym door so I'd suck it up and carry my "heavy" ATC that far...with some help.

 

As far as a biner brake, useful to know but I don't wouldn't choose it over my ATC given the choice. No doubt some people can rig it up fast enough but I'd cause an epic rapping a long multipitch with one.

 

If there was some kind of edge it had over a regular ATC, I'd reconsider.

Edited April 10, 2009 by spotly

[cemmes]

I guess what most people are complaining about this device is that it doesn't seem to have any advantages, just disadvantages. It can ONLY take a single rope, whereas with the normal ATC you have the OPTION of two or one. Even more so, the one advantage you would think would come with a device that is trying to be simplistic, being lighter, isn't the case.

 

I'm honestly curious, coming from someone who has used it, in what situations would this device have advantages over another standard belay/rappel device with two slots? What situations do you choose to use this instead of another?

 

It just seems to me that why not just use the double slotted device because it gives you more options if needed.

 

[genepires]

I'll post plenty of pictures of me not using a dumb device. Easy.

 

Actually when one has common sense, you don't need pictures to prove your point or push your experience level to others, something you seem to do plenty.

 

Can't average joes have an opinion of anything, dane? Or are we too far below you to have a valid opinion? Such attitude.....

[jmace]

"Trendy?"...ya, like 30 years old or so now

 

Because something is old doesnt mean its not trendy, have a look at all the kids dressed up like they are from the 80's...its a trend

 

It works just as well as anything on the market....real trick is just to be smart enough to know when and where to use it.

 

thats the kicker..it doesnt work as well as anything on the market, in fact its far less superior than anything currently available. Furthermore it costs about the same and weighs more than a standard ATC which has more functionality.

 

I like your argument style though, flash a bunch of meaningless pictures for distraction, slide in a few meaningless points..then when that fails you finish it off with a perfect finishing blow: if you dont get it its cause your stupid.

 

 

Your probably a good sales person.

 

 

 

 

[Dane]

The pictures posted above are climbs I either used a Sport ATC on this year or climbs I used a single link on in the past. But obviously all climbs where the BD Sport ATC could have been used. Might be someone on CC.com that would like to know that sort of info. The first objection seems to be the Sport ATC is only useful in a gym, which is incorrect. YMMV of course.

 

The single link style belay devices were the first mechnical belay devices (simple chain links and the Sticht plate after the Munter hitch) used some 40 years ago and still useful to some. Obviously not "trendy" as it clearly isn't the latest style.

 

Some how (could it be the bad reviews?) with the many misleading comments the fact that the Sport ATC works just fine as a belay device on a single rope gets ignored.

 

FYI the BD Sport weights 60g, the BD XP 87g, BD ATC Guide 102g.

 

If I wanted a super light alpine rig, I'd load up on lwt wire gates making sure a few BD Oval-wires (4 weigh in at 120g) were thrown in for raps and climb on a light weight 9+mm single or maybe even a single 8mm dbl with a 5mm tag line, using the Sport ATC to belay.

 

Edit for weights and "slick" comment:

 

Weights? Here is what I get on my digital scale, the BD Sport weights 60g, the BD ATC 60, the BD XP 87g, BD ATC Guide 102g. with the additional ability to auto lock. Petzl Reverso for small ropes, 57g. with auto lock and the Chouinard link with red cord, 15g.

 

"Slicks" are simpliest belay devices that are direct decendants of the original chain links (MSR or the hardware store) we first used as mechnical belay devices. There are no "teeth" on the brake side of a "slick" to help manage the friction. Any slick should be lighter in a given model but as most will notice they feed and brake rather inconsistantly. The newer ATCs make the slicks pretty much obsolete unless you just want to cut down on weight.

 

 

[genepires]

So Dane, what are the advantages of the atc sport over other devices?

Obviously it is a whopping 27 gram saving over the XP but it is heavier than the regular atc which comes in at 50 grams. (which you didn't show in your weight arguement above)

 

So maybe your super light alpine rig should include a atc over a sport, if weight was the sole factor. Functionality should be a consideration, like the ability to easily rappel.

 

Your statement about how the device does work gets ignored is irrelevant. I don't think anyone ever said that the device won't work as a belay device. The point that is stated over and over is the lack of the ability to doing rappels with it.

 

What people do not need the ability to do rappels while climbing? People at short crags and gyms will find this device fits them well. Sure you could use the sport at any type of climb, but it was designed for crag use. Short crag use. from the BD website "A single-rope, sport-cragging belay device,". Not even sport climbing but sport cragging.

 

 

BTW- there is a sweet photo on the BD website of a guy hex protecting super crack. Awesome!

 

Edited April 11, 2009 by genepires