Peter_Puget Posted November 5, 2008 Posted November 5, 2008 So different than the arrogant American.....when will we learn... It would be rash to make a sweeping moral judgment on a group of people like the American voting public. Morality entails two dimensions: an objective dimension and a subjective dimension. The first dimension concerns whether a given choice or action is right or wrong in itself. The second dimension involves intention and moral knowledge. Our Catholic tradition has always recognized the possibility of “invincible ignorance,” whereby a person does something wrong while sincerely and perhaps blamelessly believing it to be right. I doubt many Americans voted for Obama thinking they were doing something wrong. On the other hand, this doesn’t mean that we aren’t morally responsible for this choice. Some people may have allowed more superficial concerns triumph over more weighty moral issues in determining which way they would vote. All who voted for Obama will in some way share in the responsibility for his actions as president, at least as far as they were foreseeable. As far as life issues, marriage, and school choice go (to take three key moral issues), we already know where Obama stands and what he intends to do. Personally, I wouldn’t want that on my conscience. Thomas D. Williams Dean of theology and professor of moral theology and Catholic social thought at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University in Rome, Vatican Analyst for CBS News Quote
Hugh Conway Posted November 5, 2008 Posted November 5, 2008 Who knew the Vatican was run by out of touch lunatics? Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted November 5, 2008 Posted November 5, 2008 So different than the arrogant American.....when will we learn... It would be rash to make a sweeping moral judgment on a group of people like the American voting public. Morality entails two dimensions: an objective dimension and a subjective dimension. The first dimension concerns whether a given choice or action is right or wrong in itself. The second dimension involves intention and moral knowledge. Our Catholic tradition has always recognized the possibility of “invincible ignorance,” whereby a person does something wrong while sincerely and perhaps blamelessly believing it to be right. I doubt many Americans voted for Obama thinking they were doing something wrong. On the other hand, this doesn’t mean that we aren’t morally responsible for this choice. Some people may have allowed more superficial concerns triumph over more weighty moral issues in determining which way they would vote. All who voted for Obama will in some way share in the responsibility for his actions as president, at least as far as they were foreseeable. As far as life issues, marriage, and school choice go (to take three key moral issues), we already know where Obama stands and what he intends to do. Personally, I wouldn’t want that on my conscience. Thomas D. Williams Dean of theology and professor of moral theology and Catholic social thought at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University in Rome, Vatican Analyst for CBS News HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!SOME "BIG" ISSUES!!!!! Quote
korup Posted November 5, 2008 Posted November 5, 2008 Peter- do us all a favor and crawl back to the primordial slime cave with Palin and the Pope. The adults have real work to do. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted November 5, 2008 Posted November 5, 2008 Peter- do us all a favor and crawl back to the primordial slime cave with Palin and the Pope. The adults have real work to do. Yeah, I'd say the biggest 'moral issue' the Vatican faces right now involves little boys, not grown black men. Quote
General Zod Posted November 5, 2008 Posted November 5, 2008 (edited) All of Europe is ecstatic about Obama's victory and PP manages to find a completely different spin on the whole thing. So different than the arrogant American.....when will we learn... Our Catholic tradition has always recognized the possibility of “invincible ignorance,” whereby a person does something wrong while sincerely and perhaps blamelessly believing it to be right. You're becoming a denial comedy Peter. Edited November 5, 2008 by General Zod Quote
Peter_Puget Posted November 5, 2008 Author Posted November 5, 2008 What happened to the Obama love fest? Quote
Peter_Puget Posted November 5, 2008 Author Posted November 5, 2008 Hey I thought you were banned! Quote
ashw_justin Posted November 5, 2008 Posted November 5, 2008 It would be rash to make a sweeping moral judgment on a group of people like the American voting public. Morality entails two dimensions: an objective dimension and a subjective dimension. The first dimension concerns whether a given choice or action is right or wrong in itself. The second dimension involves intention and moral knowledge. Our Catholic tradition has always recognized the possibility of “invincible ignorance,” whereby a person does something wrong while sincerely and perhaps blamelessly believing it to be right. I doubt many Americans voted for Obama thinking they were doing something wrong. On the other hand, this doesn’t mean that we aren’t morally responsible for this choice. Some people may have allowed more superficial concerns triumph over more weighty moral issues in determining which way they would vote. All who voted for Obama will in some way share in the responsibility for his actions as president, at least as far as they were foreseeable. As far as life issues, marriage, and school choice go (to take three key moral issues), we already know where Obama stands and what he intends to do. Personally, I wouldn’t want that on my conscience. Thomas D. Williams Dean of theology and professor of moral theology and Catholic social thought at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University in Rome, Vatican Analyst for CBS News Since when does it take this many words to say that the masses are mostly mindless, but are guilty anyway and will be punished somehow for swinging away from this elitist's personal moral views? Quote
prole Posted November 5, 2008 Posted November 5, 2008 Hey Peter, how's the movement for the beatification of Hitler's pope doing? Quote
Stefan Posted November 6, 2008 Posted November 6, 2008 So different than the arrogant American.....when will we learn... It would be rash to make a sweeping moral judgment on a group of people like the American voting public. Morality entails two dimensions: an objective dimension and a subjective dimension. The first dimension concerns whether a given choice or action is right or wrong in itself. The second dimension involves intention and moral knowledge. Our Catholic tradition has always recognized the possibility of “invincible ignorance,” whereby a person does something wrong while sincerely and perhaps blamelessly believing it to be right. I doubt many Americans voted for Obama thinking they were doing something wrong. On the other hand, this doesn’t mean that we aren’t morally responsible for this choice. Some people may have allowed more superficial concerns triumph over more weighty moral issues in determining which way they would vote. All who voted for Obama will in some way share in the responsibility for his actions as president, at least as far as they were foreseeable. As far as life issues, marriage, and school choice go (to take three key moral issues), we already know where Obama stands and what he intends to do. Personally, I wouldn’t want that on my conscience. Thomas D. Williams Dean of theology and professor of moral theology and Catholic social thought at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University in Rome, Vatican Analyst for CBS News Then by that philosophy, anybody who voted for George W. Bush in 2004 is responsible for the public deaths and American deaths in the ongoing Iraq conflict. Quote
olyclimber Posted November 6, 2008 Posted November 6, 2008 What happened to the Obama love fest? Time to go to Europe and get some nookie! http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_election_an_american_abroad Quote
el jefe Posted November 6, 2008 Posted November 6, 2008 So different than the arrogant American.....when will we learn... It would be rash to make a sweeping moral judgment on a group of people like the American voting public. Morality entails two dimensions: an objective dimension and a subjective dimension. The first dimension concerns whether a given choice or action is right or wrong in itself. The second dimension involves intention and moral knowledge. Our Catholic tradition has always recognized the possibility of “invincible ignorance,” whereby a person does something wrong while sincerely and perhaps blamelessly believing it to be right. I doubt many Americans voted for Obama thinking they were doing something wrong. On the other hand, this doesn’t mean that we aren’t morally responsible for this choice. Some people may have allowed more superficial concerns triumph over more weighty moral issues in determining which way they would vote. All who voted for Obama will in some way share in the responsibility for his actions as president, at least as far as they were foreseeable. As far as life issues, marriage, and school choice go (to take three key moral issues), we already know where Obama stands and what he intends to do. Personally, I wouldn’t want that on my conscience. Thomas D. Williams Dean of theology and professor of moral theology and Catholic social thought at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University in Rome, Vatican Analyst for CBS News peter, why should anyone care what this apologist for the catholic church has to say? Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted November 6, 2008 Posted November 6, 2008 how is "school choice" a MORAL issue? Send your kids to a Catholic school full of horny priests and see if it isn't a moral issue. Quote
pc313 Posted November 6, 2008 Posted November 6, 2008 (edited) I went to a Catholic school but wasn't probed,the Nuns use to send me the Fathers office alot but i guss my ass wasn't that great! The Nuns were badass with a ruler,i've had a few explode across me back! I use to think they bought them by the gross. Edited November 6, 2008 by pc313 Quote
STP Posted November 6, 2008 Posted November 6, 2008 Since when has the Vatican been the representative expression of the Europeans? Our Catholic tradition has always recognized the possibility of “invincible ignorance,” Quote
E-rock Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 Since when does it take this many words to say that the masses are mostly mindless, but are guilty anyway and will be punished somehow for swinging away from this elitist's personal moral views? DOUCHE BAG ALERT! DOUCHE BAG ALERT! EAT A DICK ASSWIPE_JUSTIN! Quote
EWolfe Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 Another view from Europe: A family friend called from Paris the other night, and said people were partying in the streets until 7 AM...because Obama won. That concluded our NOT narrow-minded view of the moment. Quote
AlpineK Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 Back a number of years ago I remember telling people I talked to in France, "Le Bush il est tres mal," or, "Je n'aime pas le Bush." I should take a trip to France soon. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 My sister called from Japan, and told me that, while the more subdued Japanese weren't out in the streets, she got many, many congratulations on the election. People there are very happy with this long awaited sea change. Quote
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