Obama IS a socialist

[sobo]

Squeak the Socialist Snaffle is just here for the

[ivan]

 

So you think the civil war was abot slavery huh? Oh, how cute. Not at all. It is great you envision the northerners as olden day civil rights leaders, but their motives were far more self serving than that.

you do like to assume, dontcha

 

actually, i'm a cracker meself, bred n' buggered in the south and spent much of my life back there drunk as a skunk, stumbling 'round civil war battlefields (it passed for adventure in a very flat land)

 

i've never understood the splitting of hairs that goes on over the civil war origins - yes, to be precise, the origin of the war was in economics and property rights, but as the property in question, and the engine of the southern economy WAS slavery, it seems a pretty pointless distinction. of course the damn yankees were bigots too, but that didn't mean they approved of slavery - lincoln's party was incredibly clear on desire to halt the spread of slavery, and that was clearly the reason for the initial wave of southern secessions in 1860-1.

 

at any rate, the parallel to today is a fair one. 1860's crackers fought for a system that wasn't working for them b/c they liked the dream of being one of the select few that it did enrich - same as 2008 crackers (though the jesus is on the gop's side is a wee bit different)

[jordop]

What's mildly amusing about FW is that he doesn't realize that the rest of the world, outside his right wing, round padded cell, doesn't view the word 'socialist' as an insult.

 

Up here it's a bit of a compliment. We even named a socialist as the greatest Canadian ever.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/greatest/top_ten/nominee/douglas-tommy.html

[billcoe]

actually, i'm a cracker meself, bred n' buggered in the south and spent much of my life back there ...

 

Gasp! Cracker!

 

Sick.

 

I thought I was a Cracker, having only been called that maybe twice, both times while drinking with my black skinned buddies, but learned late in life that I'm a actually Haole. Derogatory term for white person. I find it amusing that whenever I refer to myself as a Haole amongst SE islanders like big angry Samonans etc, they invariably think I'm immediately a drinking buddy and not someone they need to whack on the head with a Mao-mao stick or a coup stick. Which I find a very interesting and enjoyable trait: so we get along fine. Thus, I've come to associate Cracker and Haole as terms that mean only "Drinking Buddy".

 

Hows that for some fucked up etymology?

 

 

 

 

 

I got's me more if ya need it.........

 

PS, I've learned that Obama is a Post Turtle.

[Fairweather]

Fairweather, your source may be using fuzzy math.

 

They pay payroll taxes even if no deduction is taken for "federal income tax."

 

 

I'm not sure how Obama's proposal will apply to these people, but they DO pay taxes and thus COULD receive a reduction without receiving a cash grant or, as you put it, welfare.

 

Social Security and Medicare for their own future benefit. Those so-called taxes are not income tax. Maybe the "rebate" these folks receive should be deducted from their payout upon retirement. You can't be serious with that argument, Matt.

[TREETOAD]

Well, most of hte banks and quite a few of the largest companies in the Union of Socialist Amerika are now owned by the people. I would say that you have the makings of a really good system. Don't fuck that up too. It is hard to believe that there could be anyone that would vote for Maclean and Sally Pylon but it seems that you still may fuck that up yet.

[mattp]

Fairweather - First of all, I don't think the Obama plan involves a rebate, though I don't know all the details. Second of all, if the plan contains some sort of break in payroll taxes it is not tax relief but welfare? Are YOU serious?

 

I don't know all the details but I don't see any basis for your statements here.

[Fairweather]

Fairweather - First of all, I don't think the Obama plan involves a rebate, though I don't know all the details. Second of all, if the plan contains some sort of break in payroll taxes it is not tax relief but welfare? Are YOU serious?

 

I don't know all the details but I don't see any basis for your statements here.

 

In order:

 

It does. It does not address payroll taxes for lower income Americans. Yes. As usual.

 

 

The Messiah would be most unhappy that you sprayed on the internets during his tri-network call to prayer.

[RuMR]

Matt...there's never any basis to Fairy's statements...

 

Speakin' of, are you greasing up the pig, fairy? You gonna dress it up with some lipsticky?

[RuMR]

here piggy piggy...here sweetie pie...

[RuMR]

ssssuuuuuuuueeeee sssssssuuuuuueeee....

 

come and get it!!!!

[RuMR]

dammit...where did fairy go????

[pc313]

[ken4ord]

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/27/radio-interview-obama-laments-lack-supreme-court-ruling-redistributing-wealth/

 

"And I think one of the tragedies of the civil rights movement was that the civil rights movement became so court-focused, I think there was a tendency to lose track of the political and organizing activities on the ground that are able to bring about the coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributive change, and in some ways we still suffer from that," Obama said.

 

It almost sounds like he's saying that the courts are a dead-end for "redistribution of wealth" schemes--which he clearly--supports--and that some form of raw populism is preferable? This guy gets scarier with each passing day.

 

Why FOX? Because no one else in the media seems to care about "knowing" Barak Obama.

 

 

Yeah and socialism is the worst thing that could ever happen. Could you imagine what that would mean, jeezs everybody in the states would have such a good life and not have it be such a struggle, trying to get by. The horror! I mean how could anyone think that any type of work has similar value? Come on folks don't you see sitting behind a CEO failing banking desk jobs should be worth the hundreds of thousands dollars a year and guy hauling off your garbage should be happy with his 45k a year?

 

 

In regards to fairweather's new name: unfairestweather

[joblo7]

humanity IS socialism.

[akhalteke]

humanity IS socialism.

 

I would rather think it favored Locke.

[mattp]

Matt...there's never any basis to Fairy's statements...

 

Speakin' of, are you greasing up the pig, fairy? You gonna dress it up with some lipsticky?

 

There IS a basis for his statement here, to the extent that the 38% figure actually did reflect something although it was used in a misleading fashion. And there is a rebate proposal floating about - though it is not part of any ongoing plan that could even remotely be called welfare.

 

Where Fairweather tried to argue here that payroll taxes are not income tax and people shouldn't get any return of these deductions he'll take the counter view tomorrow or the next day. And the rebates he complains of? They are a one-time thing that is proposed as an aid to this economic crisis and it is a rebate. I believe this means that you get refunded up to $1,000 toward taxes actually paid.

 

It appears Fairweather is getting his information from bloggers or pundits who cast any Democrat sponsored tax relief as a socialist redistribution of wealth even if they might tomorrow (or yesterday) argue for the same thing and call it "simple fairness." You are right, though, that (as usual), when I asked him to clarify his statement he declined.

[akhalteke]

You mean where people who do not pay any taxes still are given tax rebates that would have only applied to those currently paying taxes? Seems like welfare to me.

[minx]

who should get the rebate then? i forget the exact number but based on deductions, credits,exemptions etc nearly everyone making less than $45K/yr effectively pay no taxes.

 

*please note i am not in favor of rebates at this point

[mattp]

I'm with you, minx. I think the rebate thing may simply be a campaign gimmick. But these guys don't know what they are talking about with this "giving rebates to people who don't pay taxes" B.S. and apparently have no interest in finding out the basis for these misleading statements.

[Bug]

Fairweather - First of all, I don't think the Obama plan involves a rebate, though I don't know all the details. Second of all, if the plan contains some sort of break in payroll taxes it is not tax relief but welfare? Are YOU serious?

 

I don't know all the details but I don't see any basis for your statements here.

 

In order:

 

It does. It does not address payroll taxes for lower income Americans. Yes. As usual.

 

 

The Messiah would be most unhappy that you sprayed on the internets during his tri-network call to prayer.

Exxon reported record profits over last year's record profits.

$43 billion. That is profits not gross revenue.

So I guess you think that the stockholders of Exxon should get that tax break money instead of the hard working family that could not afford a decent eduaction?

 

FW, you are cold hearted. Maybe even fascist.

[akhalteke]

who should get the rebate then? i forget the exact number but based on deductions, credits,exemptions etc nearly everyone making less than $45K/yr effectively pay no taxes.

 

*please note i am not in favor of rebates at this point

 

No-one. We are in a deficit; a large one. I knew not to spend more than I made at the age of 6. Why the leaders in this country cannot figure that out is beyond me.

[akhalteke]

I'm with you, minx. I think the rebate thing may simply be a campaign gimmick. But these guys don't know what they are talking about with this "giving rebates to people who don't pay taxes" B.S. and apparently have no interest in finding out the basis for these misleading statements.

 

Really Matt? Takeyour own medicine; I won't swallow it.

 

Barack Obama says he will give 95 percent of all American workers a tax cut but does not mention that his plan would send checks to tens of millions of tax filers who pay no personal income taxes - payments that critics say look "suspiciously like welfare."

 

Mr. Obama's campaign promise, which he has repeated in his speeches and in the presidential debates, stems from his "Making Work Pay" tax cut that will give a $500 refundable tax credit to every worker or $1,000 to each working couple. But because this provision in his economic-recovery plan is "refundable," a large number of middle- to lower-income workers who have no income-tax liability after taking tax credits and deductions the that Internal Revenue Service allows, will be given the equivalent of the tax cut in the form of direct payments from the U.S. Treasury - funded by higher-income taxpayers.

 

Because the IRS says that nearly 46 million tax filers - one-third of all filers - had no tax liability in 2006, there is the question of how millions of Americans can receive an income "tax cut" when they pay no taxes.

 

[akhalteke]

"Obama will give 95% of American working families a tax cut, even though 40% of Americans today don't pay income taxes ...How can he 'cut' zero?...A 'refundable tax credit'... involves the federal government taking money from those who do pay taxes, and writing checks to those who don't. Yes, yes, in the real world this is known as 'welfare'."

[prole]

The greatest British climbers of all time, the futuristic old-school alpinists whose Himalayan routes many of you won't even see in your lifetimes, were welfare queens. That's right, "the dole" gave these "parasites" something for you wage-slaves to aspire to. Have fun in the cube today...