Training for Ice Climbing

[carolyn]

Jerry,

you crack me up!

[dan_e]

SC,

Make sure you are doing each pull-up slow and deliberatly, this is more important than how many you can do. I do sets of 7-10, but again, slowly and sometimes locking off at different angles on the way up or down. I rest a minute or two between each set and do about five or more sessions per workout.

I am not sure about the swinging, never happens to me. What type of bar are you using? I got this nice one that extends out 1.5' from the door frame and is foam covered, it can also be removed for other exercises.

Dan E.

[Courtenay]

In response to << I think I just need to practice them a little more; practice at staying relaxed as I do them. And keeping my body long and straight as I do them. >> That's what I'd recommend -- though you might not get 22, you're better off getting fewer, slower, quality reps (with the occasional swinger for dyno practice!) that really tax the targeted muscles, rather than using the entire body to get you over the bar.

<< By the way, why do you think lat pull-downs are a waste of time? >> If your goal is to do pullups, doing lots of lat pull downs will do very little to assist you toward your goal. I've never had success (myself, or with many clients) switching to lat pull downs and maintaining lat strength for pullups. Must have something to do with the muscles recruited. If you've heard of "specificity", you'll know that in order to climb better, you've got to climb. Same for pullups: in order to improve pullups, you've got to do pullups. Good luck.

[jon]

I hate doing pullups (and situps) but my favorite by far are towel pullups. Take your pullup bar or whatever and put two towels over the bar about a foot apart. Then take athletic tape and wrap the two ends of each towel together a few inches above the end, this is where you typically grip the towel. Now try and do pullups! I found these really work your muscles differently than normal pullups and helps with your grip strength. You can make the grip area different diameters and put the towels further or closer to mix it up.

[Courtenay]

Another great idea (specifically for ice climbing, since that was the original thread / question) is dowel pullups -- take different thicknesses, drill a hole in one of the ends and thread it with cord, then loop them over your squat rack or pullup bar. Wrap them with one layer of athletic tape so you have a better chance of hanging on. You can do hangs (for endurance) or pullups (for ice-climbing specific power/strength).

[Jens]

In my humble opinion, pull-ups are way overrated.

David Graham is arguably one of the most powerful sport climbers on the planet and he admits that he can't do a one arem pull up or nearly as many regular pull-ups as some of his belay partners.

Even on the ice, they are overrated.

Try developing the coordination of the precise moment of upward movement by using your momentum whether pulling plastic or using your ice tools. I've seen people that can do one armers fall of 5.10's and people who couldn't do 10 pull ups who could climb 5.13. Just my two cents.

[dan_e]

quote:

---

In my humble opinion, pull-ups are way overrated.David Graham is arguably one of the most powerful sport climbers on the planet and he admits that he can't do a one arem pull up or nearly as many regular pull-ups as some of his belay partners.Even on the ice, they are overrated.Try developing the coordination of the precise moment of upward movement by using your momentum whether pulling plastic or using your ice tools. I've seen people that can do one armers fall of 5.10's and people who couldn't do 10 pull ups who could climb 5.13. Just my two cents.

---

Not trying to say who's right or wrong here, but I don't agree with Jens, mainly because sport climbing and ice climbing are not the same, even with the advent of new techniques used in ice climbing. Most ice climbers WILL benefit from some type of upper body work out and arm strength training. Sport climbers don't have to swing tools and kick crampons into ice for multiple pitches!

Dan E.

[geordie]

In response to Courtney's feelings that lat pulls won'r help with pull ups, I've had the opposite experience. For those of us cursed with a paucity of pull up genes, lat pull machines can let you work at "sub pullup" weights. I've never gotten better at pullups by doing sets of 1 or 2, but working with the lat pull machine helped me get to sets of 7-9 pullups.

gr

[haireball]

I find splitting kindling for my woodstove to be a very effective workout. With a hatchet-sized 2lb maul, I'll split thin kindling for a half-hour or so, switching hands every other log or so. This activity is very similar, ergonomically, to swinging ice tools, and allows me to perform the motion with greater resistance (a heavier tool) than I use for ice-climbing. An even heavier move for strengthening hands and wrists uses a full-sized maul (weight selected to match your size and strength - they range from 6lb head to 16lb head). Grasp the maul about mid-handle (nearer the head if you're weaker, further away from the head if you're stronger), hold it at arms length with the handle horizontal, then raise the head of the maul 180' through the vertical plane to the other horizontal, then back - and continue to failure with each hand. After a brief rest, try holding the maul in one hand with the handle vertical and head up, then rotate the head of the maul in horizontal circles of varying radius until you wrist fatigues again, both hands. Work with a light head weight until you can perform long workouts at the full length of the handle, then acquire a maul with a heavier head and continue progressing. During my thirty years of climbing, I have run across two individuals who can perform these moves with a full-sized 8lb splitting maul at full extension. One was a 225-lb retired semi-pro hockey player - turned logger, and the other was a partner of mine who used to climb ice with Bill March.

CAUTION: this is a HEAVY workout, for relatively small muscles... don't try to do it daily unless you relish the prospect of tendonitis. A couple times per week is plenty to generate stunning results for most folks...

[Cpt.Caveman]

While everyone argues if pull-ups are good or not, I still have not seen anybody dis bicep curls aka the pint swill My trusted main exercise is the best?!

[EddieE]

Doing pull-ups may only encourage poor technique, especially when ice climbing, if that's the only thing you're doing. Most of the time you're either hanging or locked off - not pulling up with your arms. You're much better off training by splitting wood, framing a house with a heavy hammer, etc, etc. You're forearms will flame out a heck of a lot faster than your back.

Hey Caveman - you need to step up to the 40 ouncers and drop the girlie weights.

[ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: EddieE ]

[Courtenay]

...And, of course, the best training for ice climbing is... ICE CLIMBING. All the rest of this thread simply contains additional suggestions for you to try in order to get prepared (General Physical Preparation) until you can actually be out there on the ice.

[Cpt.Caveman]

EddieE,

I drank mo fotey ouncahs a week than u can imagine Pint size is pub size unless you go to the OktoberFest! Then you get the liter mugs!!!!!!!!!

[willstrickland]

Caveman,

If you're ever down this way, check out the Delta Cafe @ 52nd and Woodstock. They've got some tolerable southern style cookin(everyone raves, but I grew up eating grandma's cookin and grandma is about as country southern redneck as you can get) and get this: You can get 40oz PBRs bottles served up in a mini wine-cooling bucket packed with ice to keep your 40 cold. Now that's quality..."I'll have the country fried steak, fried green tomatoes, fried okra, collard greens, and a 40 of Pabst please!"

[Cpt.Caveman]

I'll have to tag the summit of Hood one of these days! When I do I will straggle in on a train and crash on your floor after a night of women chasing and guzzling of hard liquor!

[todd]

why hasnt anyone mentioned CALF RAISES?! on pretty much anything other than steep mixed routes, your calves will be doing a lot of work - train 'em!

[carolyn]

Ive been doing calf raises religiously lately. I dont know how much they help, but Im guessing they cant hurt.For some reason my calves tend to burn on me quicker than my arms. Im pretty new to the ice, and definately have some work to do on my technique all around. I know I struggled a lot with the boots I was using last year and having proper foot technique. could that be part of the reason my calves burn so quickly?

[ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: carolyn ]

[EddieE]

I think so, Carolyn. You may not be "settling" into your front points as much as you should (letting the boot do the work) and still standing on your toes. And, especially on lower angle ice or chandaliered ice, you can always find a spot to get your foot sideways and put your heel down. That helps a lot.

[texplorer]

I agree with the Courteney (she's a CSCS)for the most part but if you aren't able to do at least 6 pull-ups/chin-up of any kind you can benefit from the lat PD. Do a weight that you fatigue out on in 8-12 reps. I started with lat PD and then moved to pull-ups. I still can't do a one arm but can do sets with a 35lb plate.

[DPS]

I have never had my calves flame out on me while ice climbing. The reason? Trail running. Running hundreds of thousands of feet of elevation a year makes for strong calves. Now if only I could do a pullup...

[ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: danielpatricksmith ]

[EddieE]

I think I read somewhere that you can climb belly first with the aid of your third tool. I heard you pull on that one a lot Caveman.

[Cpt.Caveman]

You got it man. I am going to attach a crampon to my belly and go first

[Dru]

re:calf raises, every time i pick up the calf, the cow charges me, and i put it down again, so i never managed to do more than 1 rep. maybe i should wait till the cow falls asleep and then push it over?

[Cpt.Caveman]

Cow Tipping eh? You sure you are not from the Chumstick either. Do you take a gun to work ?

[sexual_chocolate]

Super-cool pull-up workout I just started:

Take 75% of your pull-up rep max, meaning if you can do 12, then choose 8. Do a set of 8, rest 2 minutes, again do your 8, again rest 2 minutes, and repeat for a total of 4 sets. I found it to really start burning by the 3rd set, and actually couldn't complete it until my 4th workout (2nd week). Now my goal is to complete the 4th set, and then bump my reps and start working up again. This seriously feels very beneficial for any type of climbing where endurance or power-endurance is an issue. I find it to burn in a similar way as when I'm taking my red-point burn on that crack that pope bolted; I think it's called R.O.T.C. or something? But seriously, this seems like a really good workout. Have fun!

BTW, I worked out my pull-up swing issues. It was just a matter of coordination! Thanks for your input, to all who replied.