ice tool recommendations

[tokyobob]

Hello,

 

I'm looking to replace my hand-me down Charlets' (circa 2001). Does anyone have an opinion about the BD reactors? I'm an intermediate ice climber (follow WI 3, no leading as of yet) and was looking to transistion to leashless tools in the 250.00 range.

thanks,

Bob

[DRep]

The reactor is a great ice tool. As for a first leashless tool, you could not find a better one. It is great on lower angle to vertical ice but not too great on overhanging ice because of the angle. It also feels very solid on mixed, more so than the vipers or cobras. having a leashless tool like the reactor would make learning to lead soooo much easier than a leashed tool because you don't have to fumble with the leash.

I hope this helps!

[kevino]

I have the reactors and have thoroughly enjoyed them. I've climbed everything to wi2 to wi5 with them, but haven't experienced them on mixed, however the person I bought them from was climbing m8 with them, so I'd imagine they are quite solid on that as well.

[sweatinoutliquor]

Look in the yard sale and buy ChadA's quark ergos for 225 bucks plus an extra pick. Best deal in town right now in my opinion, and I would be all over it if I really needed a 3rd set of tools for the two days of ice climbing I do a year...

[Joe_Poulton]

I'm a Grivel fan myself...after I got sick of trying to lead WI with my Chalet Quasar tools, I picked up the X-Monsters and love them for their narrow shaft profile, inexpensive price tag, durability...if you're climbing hard routes eventually you need 4 tools anyway if you break a pick. The X-Monsters are the cheap way to get that done.

[selkirk]

Look in the yard sale and buy ChadA's quark ergos for 225 bucks plus an extra pick. Best deal in town right now in my opinion, and I would be all over it if I really needed a 3rd set of tools for the two days of ice climbing I do a year...

 

What he said. The Quark Ergo's are great tools

[Jens]

That Quark Ergo add of ChadA's? is the best deal you'll find anywhere, anytime.

 

I have both the ergo and regular quarks and love em' both.

 

Whatever you do, don't put a leash on whatever tool you buy.

 

[tokyobob]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the advice. It's taken me awhile to figure that out about the leashes. They were definately more of a security blanket when I first started.

thanks again,

Bob

[kevino]

Not to hijack tokyobob's thread...but what would you guys considered a good all around tool for WI and alpine climbing? Specifically, what do you guys think of quark vs viper?

[John Frieh]

Both are great tools (assuming you are talking about the new vipers... between quarks and the old vipers I'd say quarks). I'd say which one you can find cheaper...

[Alex]

I've heard mixed reviews of Reactors. Tvashtarkatena has/had a pair. I've tried them just once and didn't like.

 

If between Quark and *older* Viper for same price, I'd go Quark hands down. I have Quarks and new cobras now.

 

 

[Jens]

The tools are a deal!

 

I didn't personally care for the reactors, or vipers and I didn't like the grip of the cobras.

 

 

[kevino]

Sounds like you're just a hard one to please Jens!

 

Alex, when you refer to the older Vipers do you mean the silver ones? If so, I was referring to the bronze colored one.

 

And I heard there are gonna be new Quarks released this year, anyone have details?

[John Frieh]

I heard that rumor last spring but the fact that they dont have them up on their site now makes me think it wont be this year... if they dont have them up by Oct I bet not...

 

silver viper = old model

bronze viper = new model

[cbcbd]

You just really have to try all the tools out. I have the Quarks and Nomics. I tried my tools against a friend's new BD Vipers and I just couldn't get a good stick at first with them... it just felt like it took a completely different swing/technique to get first sticks like I did with my Quarks. He, of course, had no issues with his Vipers.

 

Can't really go wrong with a Petzl or BD tool. They both make quality tools and once you get used to one just stick with it and have better peace of mind on the climb. Ice climbing is, afterall, very much about gear and your comfort/familiarity with it.

[TrogdortheBurninator]

I heard that rumor last spring but the fact that they dont have them up on their site now makes me think it wont be this year... if they dont have them up by Oct I bet not...

 

silver viper = old model

bronze viper = new model

 

I also dont think they had anything special at any of the trade shows. Except maybe an upper rest thingy.

[tvashtarkatena]

I've heard mixed reviews of Reactors. Tvashtarkatena has/had a pair. I've tried them just once and didn't like.

 

If between Quark and *older* Viper for same price, I'd go Quark hands down. I have Quarks and new cobras now.

 

 

Agreed. I bought the Reactors cheap to get into the game quick, but unloaded them pretty quickly once I tried Jens' Quarks, which I subsequently purchased and still think are the shit. The harder, more brittle, and 'bulgy' the ice, the more you'll appreciate the Quarks. I tried Alex's new cobra drytooling, and it was pretty groovy, too.

[chris]

To hijack the thread again - does anyone have an opinion of Cobras Vs Vipers? Almost identical geometry makes me wonder if I NEED a carbon fiber pair. I have heard the increased weight of the Vipers makes them more strenuous to swing for smaller people, but I'm wondering if the dampening in the carbon fiber is worth the extra $$.

 

Ideas?

 

Chris

[Farrgo]

Only a 1-2 oz difference. I wouldn't worry about weight, or if you are, why not go really light with some Aztars.

 

The cost/benefit all comes down to how much you climb. If you're going to get out a bunch, you'll enjoy the better tool. If you only going on a few trips a season, you'll probably not notice the difference.

[spike1970]

Ok, I have a gear problem but I'm going to meetings to try and address it.

Ice tools? I have Nomics, Reactors, Vipers and Trangos and have extensivly used the new Cobra carbon fibres.

I lead WI5 and mixed to M7.

Nomics - fantastic tools for sport mixed (you can't bang in a pin as there is no hammer so no trad mixed) on ice change the pick to a cascade pick and you have a great tool.

Reactors - I found they had a habit of bouncing on hard ice, I found that a swing on a sligth diagonal angle worked better. This was fixed in part when I changed the hammers (yes both hammers) to the standard hammer rather than the micro hammer, it gave them better balance and just really helped. One problem I found is that when you swap hands and grip them higher the point of balance changes and it has sent me flying off some stuff that I could easily do with the nomics.

Vipers - changed the hammers, I fit a standard adxe when alpine climbing and change to the heavier picks, I use them mostly leasless but they do go well with the leashes depending on the route. Great all round cheap tool but you have to go to the heavy hammers to make them really nice. Changing to higher grip point seems ok.

Cobras - Mixed climbed with them in the Rockies last year, again big hammers, great balance, great everything, really liked them but if I bought a pair I think my wife would leave me. Changing grip seems ok, they might be a similar weight but they are a very different tool to the Viper.

So if I was starting again I would buy Cobras for a great all round leasless, leashed and alpine everything in one tool.

If the budget is the issue then the Vipers are a easy choice.

For the pure joy of climbing steep ice Nomics with cascade picks, for pure hard sport mixed routes Nomics with Astro picks.

I hope that helps some

[Jake_Gano]

I had the chance to use DMM Rebels this Saturday. They were seriously nice tool, and light compared to the old-style Cobras I was swinging. The swing was rigid and damp, and the grip felt positive. The sticks were easy and solid. The pick's geometry was similar to a quarks; you could hook all day with them no problem. I would consider them if I was in the market for a new tool. My only concern would be the lack of availability of replacement picks. Compared to Petzl, Grivel, and especially BD, DMM picks are less well-stocked in your run-of-the-mill climbing shop.

 

[tvashtarkatena]

 

 

2nd Ascent in Seattle is a DMM dealer and will order picks for customers.

 

Doesn't help an Alaskan, but....

Edited September 30, 2008 by tvashtarkatena

[turbo]

I had the chance to use DMM Rebels this Saturday. They were seriously nice tool, and light compared to the old-style Cobras I was swinging. The swing was rigid and damp, and the grip felt positive. The sticks were easy and solid. The pick's geometry was similar to a quarks; you could hook all day with them no problem. I would consider them if I was in the market for a new tool. My only concern would be the lack of availability of replacement picks. Compared to Petzl, Grivel, and especially BD, DMM picks are less well-stocked in your run-of-the-mill climbing shop.

[/quot

 

I own these (DMM Rebs)

The picks are not that hard to find online. Bent Gate/ AMH.

the B rated picks (only type made at this point) bend easily (after 1 day of mixed) and they are a bitch to replace with wrenches, etc.. (not field friendly)

 

Otherwise, they swing beautifully. Not for total leashlessness, IMHO, as the pinky/hand rest is short

[kevino]

2 brand new nomics for $400? is it worth it?

[Winter]

A 2nd or 3rd for the DMM Rebels - got a pair last year, b/c the grip fit my small hands better than anything else I had tried an the balance and swing felt great. Love them.