another fiasco of bush'e foreign policy

[glassgowkiss]

frm NPR:

"Poland Rejects U.S. Missile Defense Plan

 

Poland on Friday rejected a U.S. offer to boost its air defenses in return for basing a missile shield on Polish soil, but the Polish prime minister said will remain open for further talks with Washington.

 

"We have not reached a satisfactory result on the issue of increasing the level of Polish security," Prime Minister Donald Tusk told a news conference after studying the U.S. proposal.

 

Without citing Russia's opposition to the plan explicitly, Tusk argued that placing a missile defense facility in Poland, a Soviet satellite during the Cold War, would create new security threats.

 

Tusk said talks will continue. "I wouldn't talk about the end, suspension, or interruption," he said. "Negotiations, in my opinion, are continuing."

 

The U.S. wants to place 10 missile interceptors in northern Poland as part of a shield against a possible attack by Iran or a "rogue state." Complete details of the offer have not been made public."

 

fucking brilliant! all Poland was asking for are 3 things:

- 10 batteries of Patriot missiles

- Americans troops to operate and service them

- move 1 motorized brigade from germany to western poland.

never mind poland contributed 2k soldiers to iraq and afganistan (more then australia). the american offer was a joke- 1 battery of Patriots stationing in poland for 1 month each quarter! wtf?!!

[Dechristo]

you approve of an increased presence of the U.S. military, globally?

[glassgowkiss]

wrong question

 

[Dechristo]

that's what I thought: you're the decider.

[Serenity]

Open Source Intel Analysis Summary

 

Poland and the United States reached an agreement July 1 on the ballistic missile defense system the United States will place in Poland. The base puts the U.S. military closer to the Russian border — a move which sends a message to Moscow that the United States is closing in and will not be pushed back from Russia’s periphery.

 

Analysis

 

Poland and the United States have reached an agreement on the ballistic missile defense (BMD) system to be placed in the former Eastern Bloc nation. Polish Deputy Foreign Minister Witold Waszczykowski said July 3 that the negotiations were completed July 1 and the deal now awaits approval from Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk. U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice will make the deal official when she visits Poland on July 10. The final agreement comes quickly after the United States announced June 18 that Lithuania would be considered as an alternate site for the BMD system, a strategy Washington used to spur Poland into the final agreement.

 

The positioning of 10 ground-based midcourse defense interceptors in Poland moves the U.S. military closer to the Russian border. While the stated purpose of the BMD system in Poland is to intercept nuclear attacks from rogue states in the Middle East, namely Iran, the U.S. military’s overall strategic goal is to focus even closer on Russia, tightening the noose around former Soviet territory and firmly entrenching itself in the countries once behind the Iron Curtain. Russia cannot do anything directly to prevent the United States from encroaching on its previous line of defense, but it can shore up its control over its periphery — in particular Central Asia, the Caucasus, Belarus and Ukraine.

 

Over the past six months, Warsaw had wavered on what the terms for the agreement would be. Tusk was willing to let the deal collapse unless Washington committed to helping Poland upgrade its military, particularly its air force and ground-to-air capabilities. Warsaw’s demands for military upgrades were intended to counter the threat from Russia, which sees the U.S. presence in Poland not as a deterrent to an Iranian attack, but as a direct challenge and encroachment on its former sphere of influence. The Poles understand well that the U.S. attention span can often waver and that Washington is halfway around the world, whereas Moscow is right at Poland’s (often crossed) doorstep.

 

Meanwhile, the U.S. administration wanted the negotiations wrapped up so that actual construction can begin before the new president takes office in 2009 and before the Democrat-controlled Congress has a chance to stall the deal. Therefore, Washington placed pressure on Warsaw by suggesting in mid-June that Lithuania could also serve the purpose of hosting the missiles. Tusk’s government understood the message, as Stratfor predicted it would.

 

Moscow has also received a message from Washington — one that has nothing to do with threats from Iran. Russia sees clearly that the United States is encroaching on its former buffer states and that it is there to stay. The United States already has bases in Kosovo, training facilities in Hungary, lily pad bases in Romania, monitoring facilities in Lithuania and proposed radar facilities for BMD in the Czech Republic. This signifies a shift in U.S. military stationing in Europe - one that has taken the United States from its former bases in Western Europe (traditionally in Germany and Italy) toward and sometimes within the former Soviet Union.

 

Russia is limited in how it can respond because it cannot actually force the U.S. military out of its new facilities. Former Russian President and current Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has stated that Russia’s nuclear arsenal will target the U.S. facilities in Poland and the Czech Republic and that missiles would be placed in Kaliningrad, which is nestled between Lithuania and Poland. More importantly, Russia is now aggressively looking to consolidate its periphery. It is now more vital than ever for Moscow to assure full control over its immediate sphere of influence. Moscow has been forced to clearly draw a new line and will not allow anyone to cross it.

[TREETOAD]

Don't worry your pretty little head about this stuff, you have guys like Dick Cheney and Karl Rove working on these complex problems for you. Now run along and go get yourself some chicken and ribs.

[Fairweather]

Karl Rove is back? I had no idea.

[TREETOAD]

Even though he did not go down in the usual republican nosedive by fucking some meth head up the ass in an airport bathroom or some other equally disgraceful flame out he was, I believe the traitor that outed an undercover operative, he is probably pulling some strings somewhere. I mean, you don't think Alfred E Bush is at the controls do you?

[billcoe]

Thanks for the long and through post Mike.

 

Iran, on a map, is surprisingly quite some distance from Poland. If I was Moscow.....I mean, they can easily retarget a few of their many thousand ballistic missiles, nuclear tipped, to head to these Polish locations, and what happens if 5-7 years from now, the US and Russia tussle over something like the Oil fields in the Caucuses .... ?

 

Question to Bob: doesn't inviting the US onto Polish soil make Poland both a new threat and a new target now?

 

[glassgowkiss]

new threat? oh, please- give me a brake! just in the past century poland was invaded 3 times by soviets. 1919, 1939 and 1944/45. we had over 500k soviet troops stationed for almost 50 years! now you tell me who is a threat! we are always a target, so were the baltic countries. i see a strategic alliance with the us as an only possible way to avoid being invaded in the future.

[mkporwit]

new threat? oh, please- give me a brake! just in the past century poland was invaded 3 times by soviets. 1919, 1939 and 1944/45. we had over 500k soviet troops stationed for almost 50 years! now you tell me who is a threat! we are always a target, so were the baltic countries. i see a strategic alliance with the us as an only possible way to avoid being invaded in the future.

 

Not to mention that large parts of Poland were under continuous Russian/Soviet occupation for nearly 200 years. The Poles haven't been a threat to Russia since (I think) 1608, when we claimed the dubious honor of being the only european nation to capture and hold Moscow...

[mkporwit]

As for the implications for Polish security with the ABMs being stationed there... I would say that enough people hopefully remember Versailles, 1939 and Yalta to realize that the western powers will time and time again sell Poland down the river... those missiles will contribute somewhere between jack and shit...

[Fairweather]

new threat? oh, please- give me a brake! just in the past century poland was invaded 3 times by soviets. 1919, 1939 and 1944/45. we had over 500k soviet troops stationed for almost 50 years! now you tell me who is a threat! we are always a target, so were the baltic countries. i see a strategic alliance with the us as an only possible way to avoid being invaded in the future.

 

For one who now claims American citizenship, there seems to be a whole lot of "we" in your statement vis a vis Poland. Who, exactly, are "we" GGK?

[RuMR]

hey Fairyfaggottyass...i would think that bob still identifies with family and friends there...hence the "we"...

 

man, sometimes you are just the stupidest fuck this side of dumbassville...

 

loser

[Fairweather]

Fuck off, shitbag. Bob doesn't need a 130lb weakling to stick up for him.

 

 

 

 

[pink]

[glassgowkiss]

Fuck off, shitbag. Bob doesn't need a 130lb weakling to stick up for him.

 

 

in a bar fight i want rudy on my side. i have seen him wiping parking lot at smith with some big guys.

and fyi i have 2 passports, so fuck off.

[billcoe]

new threat? oh, please- give me a brake! just in the past century poland was invaded 3 times by soviets. 1919, 1939 and 1944/45. we had over 500k soviet troops stationed for almost 50 years! now you tell me who is a threat! we are always a target, so were the baltic countries. i see a strategic alliance with the us as an only possible way to avoid being invaded in the future.

 

Look, I feel for the poor Poles who've been fucked over so bad by so many. But the reality is that the United Kingdom pledged the support of itself and France to guarantee Polish independence in early 1939 right after the Nazi's signed a pact with Stalin. This didn't stop or slow the invasion which occured that very year.

 

Now, with the tactical Nuclear missile arsenal that the Russians bring to the table, IF I WAS A POLE, I'd be damn concerned about making myself a nuclear target via a pact like this. But I'm not a pole so cannot say for sure how I'd feel in my heart.

 

I wish them the best though, they deserve it after being fucked over for so long.

[Fairweather]

 

 

...and fyi i have 2 passports, so fuck off.

 

Oh Really? I realize that in practice there aren't any issues, but you did take an oath...

 

§ 1448. Oath of renunciation and allegiance

 

(a) Public ceremony

A person who has applied for naturalization shall, in order to be and before being admitted to citizenship, take in a public ceremony before the Attorney General or a court with jurisdiction under section 1421 (b) of this title an oath

(1) to support the Constitution of the United States;

(2) to renounce and abjure absolutely and entirely all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which the applicant was before a subject or citizen;

(3) to support and defend the Constitution and the laws of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;

(4) to bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and

(5)

(A) to bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law, or

(B) to perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law, or...

 

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1448.html

[No. 13 Baby]

yeah, and Dumbya took this oath:

 

"I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

 

. . . so what's your point, conserva-boy?

[olyclimber]

well, in W's defense, perhaps he did.

[Fairweather]

He has upheld his oath. Glassgowkiss has not. Stay on topic, Consumedbybushhate.

[No. 13 Baby]

Its hard to believe there are still people like you out there.

[Fairweather]

It's not hard to believe there are still dumb shits like you out there...

 

[Bug]

He is out there all right.

 

Interesting how he changes the subject from Poland to the poster's nationality. Then gets all panty twisted when someone else changes the subject.

FW. You need to go play poker with some Blackfeet. And after you all get a little drunk, tell them you are a native of America.

Maybe you should even say the pledge of allegiance.

 

Dumbass.