Theft within the climbing community?

[Matt Kidd]

 

"My friends and I were at the King Pins at the Sunshine Wall in the vicinity of Pony Keg. There was a large group and some smaller groups also climbing in the area. A guy stopped by and asked one of my friends, who was belaying, if he could have a look at the guide book which was in a plastic zip lock bag next to my pack. The guy then apparently walked off with the book and was not seen again."

 

First of all Dihedral, I hope you get your book back safely. And that it was a mix-up. This story did remind me of others I have heard about cases of theft and possible theft from climbers by climbers. Just wondering how many people have stories about this? I know that I have left gear at the base of a climb on the assumption that another climber wouldn't burn me. Can't help but think that I'm asking to be proven wrong...

 

 

[Matt Kidd]

My story is one where "the bad guys got theirs" in the end. I was told it at Rampart Hostel on the Icefields Parkway. Anyway, over dinner these two nice guys (I can't remember their names so lets call them Bob and Jim) told us a story about a day out on Weeping Wall. Apparently they were about to start up right-hand when a second party of two arrived. These guys asked what they were going to climb to which Bob and Jim replied right-hand and something on the upper tier. One of the other party asks "So you're for sure climbing something on the upper tier?" to which they replied "yes".

 

So at the top of right hand Bob and Jim decide they're done for the day and rap off, while the other party is about to start pitch 3 on left-hand. When they get to the bottom they find their gear gone (camera, belay jacket, misc), but their pack still there. Just to be sure they check their car, and recheck their bag, and then check their car again. Nothing. So, convinced that someone came off the road and ripped them off, they're about to leave. Then Bob suggests "Why don't we check their packs" (the other party's). This is brushed off by the Jim, who says "they wouldn't rip us off, that'd be stupid". But Bob persists and they trudge back up to the base, where curiously the other party hasn't started rapping despite having finished some time ago.

 

Sure enough in their packs is all the missing gear. Bob is furious and wants to climb up and confront them, but Jim convinces him that a death match with ice tools at the top of Weeping Wall is not a great idea. Bob refuses to leave, however. Instead after a great deal of yelling up at the party (who is refusing to come down), Bob goes down to the car and gets his bottle of Jack Daniels, and sets up camp at the base.

As is usually the case, drinking the Jack only made Bob angrier, and at around midnight he has decided that he's had enough.

 

Recognizing that he's in no shape for a confrontation, he settles for putting out all the windows, lights, mirrors, etc. on this party's car with his hammer, and generally demolishing it. Satisfied, they went back to the hostel.

 

Then the hostel caretaker takes the story over. He said that a couple days later he got a phone call from the cops. They asked him if he knew people by Bob and Jim's description, and he identified them. He asked what the problem was and the cops said that they had been accused of this vandalism. Apparently the car owner had said that they had been innocently climbing and saw these guys wreck their vehicle. The insurance company smelled a rat and started questioning, and the guy says "Nevermind, I don't want to claim the damage anymore." The insurance company said "Doesn't work like that", and called the cops.

 

So in the end (we'd gotten the story after everything had panned out) the car owner had been denied his claim, and convicted of insurance fraud. Bob and Jim had no charges laid for vandalism. Bob and Jim said to watch your gear if you ever climb near a party with a yellow Geo Tracker.

[catbirdseat]

Bob had a right to be pissed off, but he went about getting his retribution the wrong way. I would have just taken a shit in the guy's pack and been off.

[Matt Kidd]

I'm inclined to agree. Bit of a shocking temper, and likely to get him in some hot water. Aside from the overkill of his retaliation, now if Yellow Geo recognizes Bob's truck at the base of another climb he's in for it.

 

Hard for me not to like them generally, though, as the next day Jim dislocated his shoulder on a mixed route, and when they left they gave us several salmon steaks and some ground moose. Greatly improved our meals, let me tell you. Maybe not karmically balanced, but closer in my mind...

[geoff]

Interesting but why would the insurance claim be denied? Did their policy have an unlawful retalitation exclusion?

[Matt Kidd]

I suppose because they lied about the context of the event.

[Dane]

Where to start? Carlos and I were climbing on Midnight Rock. Came down to find the car broken into and a bunch of gear gone.

 

Couple of days later we spot the guys in Buhler's bright red Javelin pile jacket and my white framed Varnets up the Icicle. Hard to miss with the jacket and all. We call the cops which soon arrive and head up the hill to confront the guys.

 

Pretty funny, hard to run away when you are top roping. I chopped their rope in several places when I pulled their anchors and then they went to jail. Cop wanted to know why we just didn't beat the shit out of them. Carlos was pissed but he's no meat eater. My excuse? Three on one!?

 

That was almost 30 year ago...

Last month a bag of ice screws went missing at the base of Louise Falls...and no, sadly not tourists. It was a group of 3 that walked off from the base of the pillar and rapped from the tree. End of the rap was where we had left our gear.

 

Been several incidents of gear being stolen before and since...but none where you can point a finger at other climbers. But it is obvious that it isn't such a trust worthy community outside your own group of friends...and may be never really has been.

[robertjoy]

Funny story, but it is not believable that we would be privy to the "facts" regarding the insurance claim made by the thieves. And I don't know of any police department that would put in any time on a vandalism claim. Vandalism is covered if the auto policy has full coverage, and no insurance company would deny a claim based on the fact that (alleged?) events preceeding the vandalism had not been fully reported.

[Matt Kidd]

Funny story, but it is not believable that we would be privy to the "facts" regarding the insurance claim made by the thieves. And I don't know of any police department that would put in any time on a vandalism claim. Vandalism is covered if the auto policy has full coverage, and no insurance company would deny a claim based on the fact that (alleged?) events preceeding the vandalism had not been fully reported.

 

I'm not really going to argue with you - it is likely at least partially a fabrication based upon the source. It is just supposed to be funny, but has at least some elements of truth. The caretaker was a pretty low-key guy and I have a hard time seeing him conspiring with Bob and Jim about the phone call for the sake of a silly story.

 

It's all speculation about the insurance and charges etc. That's what they said and it makes for a better story (which is quite possibly why they said it). I disagree that an insurance company would just pay out, though. ICBC gave my 50+year old mother the third degree about a parking lot hit and run on her car - "this damage says that YOU hit something". If they suspected fraud they'd pursue it.

[MATT_B]

Maybe the insuranc co. wanted a police report but the theives didn't want to file one. That could throw up some red flags.

[Sherri]

"My friends and I were at the King Pins at the Sunshine Wall in the vicinity of Pony Keg. There was a large group and some smaller groups also climbing in the area. A guy stopped by and asked one of my friends, who was belaying, if he could have a look at the guide book which was in a plastic zip lock bag next to my pack. The guy then apparently walked off with the book and was not seen again."

 

 

This same scenario took place while we were at Panty Wall in Red Rock last November. Dude saunters up from the trail, asks to look at a guidebook, someone says "sure, mine's in the pack there", and while everyone's attention is on the climbing the guy vanishes along with the book. Don't know if he was a climber or not, but it was like he knew what he wanted and left as soon as he got it.

[hafilax]

I had a guidebook disappear after a couple of guys looked through it too. Weird.

 

I guess they aren't cheap.

[G-spotter]

How much of the climbing gear sold on eBay is stolen gear? I figure probably 20% or more. If you buy used gear without knowing the owner you could be part of the problem.

[lancegranite]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with kicking somebody's ass.

 

[G-spotter]

On the plus side I just learned a way to never have to buy a guidebook again.

[ClimbingPanther]

yeah, it's no surprise for that to happen at Vantage too, since the last one was printed on Gutenburg's very own press.

[Jens]

I remember as a kid hiking up to camp muir behind two stoner types in flannel shirts. They had boots on but no packs and only hand carried water bottles going up the muir snow field. My brother and I chatted with them a bit. Later in the afternoon, we ran into them heading down on the snowfield. They had each lifted an ice axe at the muir hut. My brother and I would have confronted them but I was only 13 or so years old at the time. Imagine the two poor souls who woke up at 2am for their summit bid and couldn't find their axes.

 

Someone once wrote about rescuing a Korean climber that was in over his head on Everest. During the rescue, the rescuer noticed that the Korean was using the rescuer's axe that had been stolen a few days earlier from base camp.

 

Rock climbers always have seemed slightly more "shifty" in the theft area, although climbers seem to be less "shifty" in regards to theft than they were when I started climbing. A lot more climbers seem to have higher paying jobs, lattes, and nice SUV's these days. Especailly the types that can afford computers to post on climbing websites like cc.com.

[DRep]

NOTICE: Climbing is dangerous and may result in serious injury or death. Anyone who steals climbing gear will die due to karma; the piece will fail (who knows why, it just will). You will deck out onto your head and be seriously handicaped for the rest of your life (because that would be worse than death). Any stollen guidebook will most definitely have a topo which shows a friendly 5.7 bolt ladder, but in reality is now an unretreatable A4+ sketch fest characterized by constant rockfall, kitty litter, rusty single 1/4 bolt belays, and Barbara Streisand music.

 

I think I read that in Freedom of the Hills????

[Sherri]

.... sketch fest characterized by constant rockfall, kitty litter, rusty single 1/4 bolt belays, and Barbara Streisand music.

 

 

That's brutal.

[builder206]

Many years ago I stopped my car on Hwy. 20 beneath Silver Star in order to scope out the ford across Early Winters Creek. Done, I drove away. Many hours and miles further down the road I realized my wallet was gone. A few days later, a package arrived in the mail: my wallet, intact including the gnormous wad of 20s, and a business card from an American Alpine Institute guide.

[ScaredSilly]

I once had the opposite - got accused of stealing gear. The guy and his friends were real asses about it so I had fun with it. They demanded to see what was in my pack. I declined and politely said they could follow me back to my truck and record my license plate number and have the sheriff visit. The guy tried to grab me, which was a big no-no as touching someone in such a context is considered assault. In the end I did show them what was in my pack cause they threatened violence. But I did it very slowly and talked to them in tone one would a four year old (very slowly, explaining everything). When I got home I talked to the deputy who they had filed their report with the day before. His first comment was do you want to file charges, I said no just have a long talk with them.

 

 

It used to be everyone knew each other so leaving packs at the base was not a big deal. Anymore I just carry my pack - it is just training.

[DRep]

I had to bitch someone out on the ground from the tree at Rogers Corner for snooping around my partner and I's gear. Now we go cragging with the exact amount of gear we need for the routes and leave the packs at the base. Sucks we're in a world like this!

[tvashtarkatena]

Gear I've had stolen or chewed by bushy tailed wood rats:

 

2 jumars

1 pair gloves

1 fuel cup from MSR firefly stove

 

And mountain goats:

 

1 Bug Hut tent

1 pair Rayban wayfarer sunglasses, with croakies

1 pair hiking boots....

 

When will the authorities act to protect climbers from these marauders?

[DRep]

oh, those guys are the worst. They come in gangs and circle around your campsite in the enchantments. My partner and I stood back to back while they launched their violent attacks to try to grab random salty items.

[mountainmatt]

I had my book taken in a similar scenario at Tieton last year. It sucks for me as I am one of those people that puts notes down for each climb that I do (a climbing journal or sorts). Bastards! Their uppance will come!