year end sales are hot; what's your (ice) poison?

[rockermike]

Cobras, Vipers, Quarks, Nomics? Proudly post up your current favorites... (and why?)

[Lambone]

get some Quark Ergos dude. they are sweet.

[kevino]

i picked up the black diamond reactors, big upgrade on vertical ice over my last tools (petzl atzars.) I thought they were great on ice from wi2-wi5. I didn't do any mix, but the guy i bought them from said he climbed m7/8 with them.

[Dane]

Been on Quarks for awhile. Still my standby tool used leashless. But my new favorite is the Nomics which I use now when they are right for the route. (after seeing them on a moderate alpine route "right" gets pushed every trip)

 

 

Reasons? Nice hand protection with the rests on the Quark. Easy to use leashless, tough as nails...amazingly so for the Nomics on mixed. All the picks are hard to over drive and stick even when gripped and beginning to freak. Balance is good on the Quark, even better on the Nomics.

[glassgowkiss]

nomics should be renamed gimics. how are you supposed to pound pitons with them? this tool might me good for craging at ice park in colorado. a lot and i mean a lot of routes in ranges like rockies need pins for pro. the idea of making a tool without a hammer is a big miss on part of petzl (i like most of their products and they treated me very well over the years- thanks Dave!). quarks are a great tool, so were ergos. new vipers are a very good choice for a price too. i like the swing of nomic, but they are pretty much limited to craging.

[Dane]

The list of hard mixed routes in the Rockies that the Nomic has been used on is too long to list. But easily more grade 6 ice and hard mixed that you and I have done I suspect. Some still argue for wrist loops. Old myths die hard.

 

They still make and sell alpine hammers.

 

Just a couple of the climbs the Nomics has been on.

 

Some pretty good cragging here

 

 

http://www.climbing.com/news/hotflashes/riptide

 

http://canadianalpinist.blogspot.com/

 

 

[glassgowkiss]

nomic simply forces you to carry a hammer. imo it's another thing to mess with. i also think lack of hammer on nomic is a huge draw back for other wise an excellent tool.

is the terminator wall picture from this season?

[cbcbd]

I use Quarks and Nomics. Just got the Nomics a couple weeks ago... love the Nomics for the steep ice. Like Dane, I'm sure I'll be convincing myself to take the Nomics on alpine stuff. But for now they are too new and I'm protecting them, meanwhile bashing the hell of my Quarks on the chossy stuff

[BillA]

Last year while climbing in ouray a superstar extremo alpinist showed me his modified nomic. He and a friend put the thing in a vice and pulled the whole head off, which was apparently pretty difficult, then replaced it with a head with a hammer. It swung nice too. I'd try it but I had to pay for my nomics.

[Dane]

Robert the photo of Sea of Vapors is Jon Walsh's from March of '06. The pic on Shooting Gallery is his as well.

 

Myths I once believed:

 

you have to be stronger to climb leashless

you'll climb harder with a leash

you can't plunge a Quark (any tool) with a rest bolted on

you need a spike on the end of that tool

you don't need a third tool

umbilicals are for inexperienced nobs

 

Last week I was mentally counting up the number of different tools sets I have used on hard ice. There have been a few.

I've willing adopted new tools that make climbing easier.

 

When a bought Quarks several years ago I thought they were extreme waterfall tools. Having been on this face, the pic below actually shocked me. As did the pic on Shooting Gallery above. What no adze!? Both pics opened my mind to other possibilities.

 

 

 

[rockermike]

Hey thanks all for your input.

I think for my old school tastes and WI4+ goals I'm going to stick to a more conventional tool. (sorry nomic fans).l The super deal on the new Cobras has disappeared off the web so my choice now is really between new vipers and quarks. I've used BD gear (including last years vipers) and pretty much liked them. The swing seems to be good balance of elbow swing and wrist flick. I've never used quarks but it appears the pick drop is more extreme and I would suspect they take more wrist flick then the BD tools? Anybody used them both enough to make a comment? I've also been told that BDs "stick" better, but that Quarks clean more easily?? any truth is such generalizations?

 

thanks again

[trainwreck]

i just want to clear up a few things about the pics that dane posted.

 

1.) the shooting gallery does not require a hammer because there is nowhere left to place pins on it. there is a fixed two knifeblade anchor (as of last june) at the bottom of the crux and nothing else around (i.e. no cracks) for someone to place a pin. the crux and upper couloir will either take ice screws or nothing, no rock gear at all. so nomics on that route aren't that big of a deal.

 

2.) the pic of raph climbing the crux of Kitchener's Grand Central Couloir has nothing to do with nomics. everyone on that climb was using BD tools (with hammers!)

 

3.) if you're soloing the entire ice portion of the NF of Alberta what purpose would an adze serve?

 

 

i am climbing on nomics for pure ice and mixed. they are some seriously amazing tools, for what it is worth, i use bd cobras (no adze) for my alpine/mixed climbs that require piton placements.

 

 

 

[Dane]

The great photo from Raphael Slawinski's web site of the Grand Central Couloir was a joke on Robert's "cragging" comment. I had no idea what tools the four climbers used on their ascent.

 

I should have pasted in the Kitchener picture above, "Just a couple of the climbs the Nomics has been on." to make it more clear. My apologies.

 

"what purpose would an adze serve?"

 

The point I was trying to make from the first post, is, things change. Everyone use to take an adze and a alpine hammer on hard alpine. Then a hammer, adze and an alpine hammer. Now we find getting clipped by a adze on road side mixed is generally a bigger mess than a hammer so many climb with two hammers and few have seen an alpine hammer. That set up gets taken back to the mountains. Some still debate a curved shaft for the mountains but most everyone (everyone?) doing hard alpine stuff is using them.

 

The pics and links I posted here opened my eyes (and imagination) to what others are doing.

 

Never found a adze in the way soloing anywhere and sometimes useful to cut a quick step to rest on. Which a pick will do as well just not as quickly.

 

But then not having a hammer or an adze would not be that big of deal either in the right terrain, on the right route. Not something I would have thought up on my own.

Edited March 16, 2008 by Dane

[pac man]

I found this when debating about Nomics. Haven't tried it yet, but it looks promising.

 

http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/plab/data/503/nomic_finished1.jpg[/img]

Nomic mods

[hafilax]

Even with a hammer on the Nomics can you really pound a pin effectively? It's got so much curve that you have to choke way up in order to swing it. Wouldn't you beat the crap out of the shaft? Friends have said the pounding pins with Quarks is marginal enough as it is.

 

It seems to me like it would be easier, faster and more secure to bring a dedicated hammer if you're going to pound pins while climbing with Nomics.

[Dane]

 

Cool answer!

 

Quark hammer modified and bolted on? Looks like a clean solution. Any more info on how it was done? By choking up on the Nomic into the taped grip the hand position it would be OK as a hammer. About the same angle as the Quark except the hammer doesn't stick out as far as the Quark for better clearence.

 

I agree though a dedicated hammer which you could weld pins in with would be better. Just not lighter.

[pac man]

More details on the original mod can be found at:

 

Nomic hammer mod

[trainwreck]

The great photo from Raphael Slawinski's web site of the Grand Central Couloir was a joke on Robert's "cragging" comment. I had no idea what tools the four climbers used on their ascent.

 

I should have pasted in the Kitchener picture above, "Just a couple of the climbs the Nomics has been on." to make it more clear. My apologies.

 

"what purpose would an adze serve?"

 

The point I was trying to make from the first post, is, things change. Everyone use to take an adze and a alpine hammer on hard alpine. Then a hammer, adze and an alpine hammer. Now we find getting clipped by a adze on road side mixed is generally a bigger mess than a hammer so many climb with two hammers and few have seen an alpine hammer. That set up gets taken back to the mountains. Some still debate a curved shaft for the mountains but most everyone (everyone?) doing hard alpine stuff is using them.

 

The pics and links I posted here opened my eyes (and imagination) to what others are doing.

 

Never found a adze in the way soloing anywhere and sometimes useful to cut a quick step to rest on. Which a pick will do as well just not as quickly.

 

But then not having a hammer or an adze would not be that big of deal either in the right terrain, on the right route. Not something I would have thought up on my own.

 

 

sorry if i came off rude. just wanted to clear up a few things about those pics.

 

 

raph, eammon, and dana all use BD rigs. i am not sure about pete takeda. raph is also the only one who has completely switched to leashless in the alpine as far as i know.

 

as far as adzes go, i've just never really found a use for them on alpine climbs. i guess that makes me new school, but i ran quarks with an adze and hammer for two seasons and pretty well never used the adze for its intended purpose. i found the picks worked well enough for cutting steps or seats and i have never tried leveling a tent pad as i don't like sleeping on routes. my point about brazeau soloing was more to say that they were intending to not stop on the ice and so an adze to cut a seat or step would be superfluous, especially if they were planning on M-climbing the headwall.

 

anyways, i apologize if what i said came off harsh, if you are ever at the icefield centre stop in and say hello!

[tvashtarkatena]

Hey thanks all for your input.

I think for my old school tastes and WI4+ goals I'm going to stick to a more conventional tool. (sorry nomic fans).l The super deal on the new Cobras has disappeared off the web so my choice now is really between new vipers and quarks. I've used BD gear (including last years vipers) and pretty much liked them. The swing seems to be good balance of elbow swing and wrist flick. I've never used quarks but it appears the pick drop is more extreme and I would suspect they take more wrist flick then the BD tools? Anybody used them both enough to make a comment? I've also been told that BDs "stick" better, but that Quarks clean more easily?? any truth is such generalizations?

 

thanks again

 

Quarks stick just as well as BDs. Personally, I found that they stuck better in colder ice than Cobras, Vipers or Reactors. That's probably personal preference/style. Quarks do swing better with a wrist flick, but that's a more efficient swing style anyway. Love that swing. Quarks also have wonderful clearance. For what it's worth, it's the best ice tool I've used.

 

I haven't used the Nomics, but they're reputed to be a fantastic mixed climbing tool when no hammer is required.

 

Personally, I wouldn't modify an expensive tool like the Nomic. It might work fine, but that tool isn't designed to be a hammer, and wouldn't it be great if the aluminum casting that holds the pick in snapped in half right in the middle of a WI 5 pitch? Quarks (or better yet, the lighter hammer version of the Aztarex) are great for alpine climbing. I plunge the tool shaft in a lot on the the snowy sections of alpine climbs; Quarks work fine for that, even with the grip rest left on (although not as well) but that would be a bit tough with a specialized ergo tool like the Nomic.

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2008 by tvashtarkatena

[Dane]

This might put our discussion of modern mixed tools on hard alpine routes into perspective.

 

http://www.grivelnorthamerica.com/headlines.php?id=50

 

"Steve with his trusty Quantum Monsters on Mount Alberta"

 

[syudla]

My personal experience with grivel (taakoon) is they are horribly sticky. Even tuned. Maybe the picks are redesigned or I just suck. Either way I switched to the new vipers. These are quite nice on steep ice.

[Chad_A]

I had been climbing on Quarks for a couple of years, then ran across a set of the new Cobras for a smokin' deal. This happened just before a nine-day trip to the Canmore area, so this is my humble impression (I climbed only leashless, no umbilicals).

 

1. The smaller grip of the Cobra is much easier to hang onto than the Quark...but I have small hands

 

2. They're very "head-light". Then, again, I climbed with micro-hammers on both tools- this could be helped with use of the larger hammer/adzes. Also, there were times when I didn't mind the lighter head weight; if the ice was real bad, the light weight allowed me to swing them many more times to clear the bad ice without tiring.

 

3. The Quarks hook better (no suprise there...compare the pick angles of the two).

 

4. The Cobras provide less feedback which is creepy at first, but I'd adjusted to it by the end of the first day...then I really liked the carbon dampening effect.

 

5. Yes, the BD picks are definitely easier to overdrive, especially after climbing the Quarks. And changing picks on the BD tools is a dream compared to the Quarks.

 

Disclaimer "YRMV".

 

 

[kurthicks]

2. They're very "head-light". Then, again, I climbed with micro-hammers on both tools- this could be helped with use of the larger hammer/adzes. Also, there were times when I didn't mind the lighter head weight; if the ice was real bad, the light weight allowed me to swing them many more times to clear the bad ice without tiring.

 

I put a regular hammer on one of my Cobras(thus far) for this reason (and to make pounding pins easier). There is a noticable swing difference between the micro hammer/adze and the full size hammer. it gives the tool a more head heavy feel, which I appreciate on such a lightweight tool.

[DRep]

I saw a Nomic with the head of a Quark Ergo? Yeah, it was pretty sweet. The guy took the pin that holds the shaft and head together and simply switched them. However, I'm not sure exactly how to replace that pin. He also added another thumb rest way up the shaft.

 

As for my favorites; Quark, Cobra, Reactor.

-Quark - has such a nice and natural swing.

-Cobra - soooo light!

-Reactor - leashless, nice swing for wrist flick sticks, amazing on moderate mixed routes, and neon green!

Edited April 6, 2008 by dave repnik

[Dane]

5. Yes, the BD picks are definitely easier to overdrive, especially after climbing the Quarks. And changing picks on the BD tools is a dream compared to the Quarks.

Disclaimer "YRMV".

 

Just more fyi.

 

The standard picks on the Cobra is pretty thin but still not as thin as the standard pick on a Quark, too lazy to mic them again to be specific. Quark pick is truely forged the BD isn't. (I work with forged parts on a daily basis so take that FWIW)

 

But forged picks really are a better part for an ice tool.

 

My limited experience is the Quark drives easier. (thinner pick.. in cold hard ice) Typical ice not a lot of difference between the two besides balance. BD picks have a serious habit of breaking at inopportune times. One guy in Canmore has a basket of 8 broken picks I was told. Josh broke two on the lower part of GC Couloir this winter.

 

With a quiver of tools for me to choose from, Chad pointed out what is important to me on some routes, "changing picks on the BD tools is a dream compared to the Quarks."

 

Changing picks isn't a big deal at a road side attraction but gets a little troublesome off the road and on longer alpine routes.

 

Climbing hard, long, alpine routes requires 1 of 3 plans: Don't break or drop anything...if you do you share what is left. You can carring an extra tool or tools. Or you carry extra picks and know you can change them on route.

 

All the tools we are discussing climb very well with just a bit of difference in head balance and handle sizes.

 

Everything else being pretty equal the deciding factors for me are how easily umbilicals tie/untie, how durable the pics are and most importantly how far off the road I'll be.