tvashtarkatena Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Pepsi distributor. FW is a Pepsi distributor. Basically, a sugar pusher for fat kids. I don't make people look like bafoons. I just roll out the red carpet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Hey FW, How many people in the Tacoma Area are unemployed right now? Are they all "losers"? If not, what does Tvash's employment have to do with anything? You are quite the petty Kapo aren't you? Normally, I don't go after someone's "ambition". But given Tvash's endlessly self-professed knowledge of all things I see no reason he shouldn't be a gainfully employed, productive member of this society. His triple-digit posts now extend from morning until late at night, so I can only conclude he is unemployed - or the most unproductive worker an employer ever had. As far as the Pepsi distributor thing, he's pretty far off the mark. Although I suppose some of the folks here who've climbed, skied and biked with me do know, I've never posted my professional credentials or place of employment on this site, so it's probably fair to ask exactly who is demonstrating an obsession here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Coke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Nice dodge. Fortunately, I'll be skiing so no time for the apologetics of class-rule. Skiing on your locally produced hand-crafted gear, no doubt. It was a serious question, prole. Absent the corporate/capitalist model, virtually all of that really neat stuff we have would not exist. So does using it while railing against the machine equal at least a small amount of hypocrisy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 ...I can only conclude he is unemployed - or the most unproductive worker an employer ever had. Maybe he's reaping the benefits of those highly-touted productivity gains we've been hearing so much about? Everybody else enjoying their productivity gains? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 (edited) No. That would put him into the very category of people for whom he's constantly expressing contempt. He's just a slacker. Are you going to address my question - or just go on defending Tvash? Edited November 10, 2007 by Fairweather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Sure. Your response is a fairly typical, if hollow one. First, absent the "corporate/capitalist model" and the wage-slavery on which it is built, I might not have the desire to ski, climb, or read celebrity-train-wreck-porn, etc. Skiing has been around for centuries, but in our society it takes on some unique features. Etymology of recreation = RE-creation. Early capitalists recognized the need for (re)creation, and built parks and other entertainments (i.e., bars) on or near factory grounds in order to maintain a compliant workforce. This separation between work and leisure was a relatively new phenomenon. As capitalism has grown, the separation between work and leisure has of course remained, and leisure/recreation/entertainment industry has become a realm of capitalist accumulation in itself, a very profitable one. The "outdoor" industry is part of this complex, and has been adept at exploiting white working and middle class desires for "freedom", "adventure", "solitude", and getting "closer to Nature". We've seen the ads, on which the industry spends enormous sums. That such an industry exists only and can only exist in a society that simultaneously supresses these features in people's daily life is no small hypocrisy. My desires are sold back to me in commodity form to be consumed. Having gotten my "fix", I'm ready to face another work week. I'll be paying off the credit card debt for my ski set-up for quite a while. What this means is, I'll working more to afford the means to escape from workdrudgery and the rest of the weekly chores that are required to reproduce my labor on a daily basis. Competition between firms to design and produce lighter and faster products in inverse relation to their durability (semi-planned obsolescence) insures that I'll need to buy more equipment on a fairly regular basis. To answer your question: would we have all this shit without capitalism? No. Is it really all that great? No. Have people enjoyed skiing and will they continue to enjoy skiing after capitalism? Yes. Is the fact that I ski for recreation going to throw me into an identity crisis? No. That we all seek the means to overcome our alienation in this society is entirely natural. The fact that we have to buy it is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 The first petroglyph depicting a person skiing, found in Scandanavia, dates back 8000 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtom Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 . I'll be paying off the credit card debt for my ski set-up for quite a while. Too many Americans get caught in this trap. Short term gain, long term loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Sure. Your response is a fairly typical, if hollow one. First, absent the "corporate/capitalist model" and the wage-slavery on which it is built, I might not have the desire to ski, climb, or read celebrity-train-wreck-porn, etc. Skiing has been around for centuries, but in our society it takes on some unique features. Etymology of recreation = RE-creation. Early capitalists recognized the need for (re)creation, and built parks and other entertainments (i.e., bars) on or near factory grounds in order to maintain a compliant workforce. This separation between work and leisure was a relatively new phenomenon. As capitalism has grown, the separation between work and leisure has of course remained, and leisure/recreation/entertainment industry has become a realm of capitalist accumulation in itself, a very profitable one. The "outdoor" industry is part of this complex, and has been adept at exploiting white working and middle class desires for "freedom", "adventure", "solitude", and getting "closer to Nature". We've seen the ads, on which the industry spends enormous sums. That such an industry exists only and can only exist in a society that simultaneously supresses these features in people's daily life is no small hypocrisy. My desires are sold back to me in commodity form to be consumed. Having gotten my "fix", I'm ready to face another work week. I'll be paying off the credit card debt for my ski set-up for quite a while. What this means is, I'll working more to afford the means to escape from workdrudgery and the rest of the weekly chores that are required to reproduce my labor on a daily basis. Competition between firms to design and produce lighter and faster products in inverse relation to their durability (semi-planned obsolescence) insures that I'll need to buy more equipment on a fairly regular basis. To answer your question: would we have all this shit without capitalism? No. Is it really all that great? No. Have people enjoyed skiing and will they continue to enjoy skiing after capitalism? Yes. Is the fact that I ski for recreation going to throw me into an identity crisis? No. That we all seek the means to overcome our alienation in this society is entirely natural. The fact that we have to buy it is not. Do you serve up this diatribe when handing over the espresso, or do you just smile and say "Have a nice day" and hope they'll toss another quarter in the tip jar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 (edited) Do you serve up this diatribe when handing over the espresso, or do you just smile and say "Have a nice day" and hope they'll toss another quarter in the tip jar? Wow, the contempt for working people doesn't let up around here, huh? Careful, the elitist underpinnings of your ideology is shining through! Edited November 10, 2007 by prole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I disagree with virtually all of it, but do appreciate your sincere reply so well stated. Look, I'm no big fan of the excesses that exist within virtually all societies - America in particular - but the alternative is economic stagnation or collapse and all the human misery attendant with the transition to whatever model you perceive as superior. I truly believe this capitalist/political model we live in remains huge steps above a human history of anarchy, feudalism, mercantilism, agrarian collectivism, etc, etc. If the hard work and stress inherent in capitalism grinds some people down and wears at their very being, well, it is just a price that would be paid in a similar form under another system. The fact that you're free to express release via skiing, climbing, whatever, should be almost enough. The fact that you seem to view these pursuits as yet another form of enslavement seems more an internal matter for you to resolve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 You have a few choices. Either find a way to construct a satisfying living within the economy, do your part to improve it, or start hiking north, out into some remote area of Canada where you are welcome to try building your own economy of hunting, gathering and perhaps farming. Here's a manual that will get you started: Bushcraft (Kochanski). Please go without your wireless internet connection. I've never believed that the system owes me any more back than I put into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Look, I'm no big fan of the excesses that exist within virtually all societies - America in particular - And if those "excesses" are the system actually working according to its own unique nature and logic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 (edited) Did I just catch a regular on this forum spraying about his superior productivity? I could never make this stuff up myself. Edited November 11, 2007 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Arbeit Macht Frei. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 (edited) Why yes. Yes it does. Well, much as I've enjoyed seeing Fairweather skewer himself on his own speculation, I feel it's only right to slide the shiv in one final time, with feeling. Want to know what I do/did, FW? OK: my gig was as a Chief Technology Officer of an internet software company. I'm now financially independent. As in "do whatever the fuck I want when I want". As in "no debt other than a mortgage for home and rental property". As in, kayaking across the Caribbean, climbing every decent weather day, and spraying with fine fellows such as yourself. Have fun at work on Monday, little man. Keep that work ethic up, brown nose when required, and someday, just maybe, you can spend as much time climbing (wait...you'd have to learn how first) and skiing (oops again!), and spraying as you want to. Would you excuse me? I feel a martini coming on. Edited November 11, 2007 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 (edited) Why yes. Yes it does. Well, much as I've enjoyed seeing Fairweather skewer himself on his own speculation, I feel it's only right to slide the shiv in one final time, with feeling. Want to know what I do/did, FW? OK: my gig was as a Chief Technology Officer of an internet software company. I'm now financially independent. As in "do whatever the fuck I want when I want". As in "no debt other than a mortgage for home and rental property". As in, kayaking across the Caribbean, climbing every decent weather day, and spraying with fine fellows such as yourself. Have fun at work on Monday, little man. Keep that work ethic up, brown nose when required, and someday, just maybe, you can spend as much time climbing (wait...you'd have to learn how first) and skiing (oops again!), and spraying as you want to. Would you excuse me? I feel a martini coming on. See Prole's post above: "Wow, the contempt for working people doesn't let up around here, huh? Careful, the elitist underpinnings of your ideology is shining through!" Only your own ego has led you to believe I really care about your profession; past or present. Show me where I ever asked or speculated about anything but your employment status. Your reply above is only meant to boost your sense of self-importance and let all who are reading know you once had value. What does interest me is the arrogance and contempt you regularly demonstrate on this board - now confirmed - despite your claimed station in life. You're a Seattle limousine liberal! Classic. Call it what you want - I still call it unemployed. Frankly, I'm having a difficult time believing your story. Your tinfoil hat and ability to copy-and-paste notwithstanding, you haven't come across here as all that bright. Edited November 11, 2007 by Fairweather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 You're a Seattle limousine liberal! Classic. Call it what you want - I still call it unemployed. Frankly, I'm having a difficult time believing your story. Your tinfoil hat and ability to copy-and-paste notwithstanding, you haven't come across here as all that bright. Interesting indeed...and important to have top of mind as context for his paradigm. Let me guess..... "Higher ordinary income tax for the upper middle class and upper class wage earners (I'm living off investments and more impacted by capital gains)" "The government should provide healthcare (I could have cared less 3-years ago but now I'm self employed by choice)" "American capitalism is the enemy (but it wasn't 4 years ago when the capital markets made my options a windfall)" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 The biggest attack on the Free Market system is by international corporations, one of which our VP was a ceo before taking office. Monopolistic practices is not free market by the way. Look at who holds controlling interest in the World bank and other multinationals and put that side by side with who is supporting CURRENT republican party polotics. Republicans used to be characterized by their fiscal responsibility and Governmental conservativsm. Iw as always pointed out that Democrats were the war mongers as our major wars were all declare with a Democrat in the white house. Now we are POURING money into Iraq and soon Iran. Meanwhile we defy efforts to conserve energy or develop alternatives. So why are we in Iraq? Money is certainly part of it but the real issue here is power. There is too much power concentrated in the white house. It is destroying our country. I have never been a Republican but I also have never beleived that they are totally wrong. The congressional moderates of the 60's and 70's were amoung the best governors of this country adn I mean on both sides of the aisle. It has been the Kennedy socialism and the Reagan facism that have polarized us and thereby continue to distract us while our constitution is dismantled by these facists who claim the Republican label but destroy the party with their radical spending. They claim your loyalty with lies about Christian values and Democracy when they support neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexual_chocolate Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Why yes. Yes it does. Well, much as I've enjoyed seeing Fairweather skewer himself on his own speculation, I feel it's only right to slide the shiv in one final time, with feeling. Want to know what I do/did, FW? OK: my gig was as a Chief Technology Officer of an internet software company. I'm now financially independent. As in "do whatever the fuck I want when I want". As in "no debt other than a mortgage for home and rental property". As in, kayaking across the Caribbean, climbing every decent weather day, and spraying with fine fellows such as yourself. Have fun at work on Monday, little man. Keep that work ethic up, brown nose when required, and someday, just maybe, you can spend as much time climbing (wait...you'd have to learn how first) and skiing (oops again!), and spraying as you want to. Would you excuse me? I feel a martini coming on. See Prole's post above: "Wow, the contempt for working people doesn't let up around here, huh? Careful, the elitist underpinnings of your ideology is shining through!" Only your own ego has led you to believe I really care about your profession; past or present. Show me where I ever asked or speculated about anything but your employment status. Your reply above is only meant to boost your sense of self-importance and let all who are reading know you once had value. What does interest me is the arrogance and contempt you regularly demonstrate on this board - now confirmed - despite your claimed station in life. You're a Seattle limousine liberal! Classic. Call it what you want - I still call it unemployed. Frankly, I'm having a difficult time believing your story. Your tinfoil hat and ability to copy-and-paste notwithstanding, you haven't come across here as all that bright. oh i think he's seemingly a bright fella, in terms of having a workable algorithmic meme reproduction routine. I think he at times displays this (limitation? cultural advantage?) in a rather malignant way (although I don't see anything "wrong" with that either, since everyone here chooses their own war). I just don't see the point of muddling around in the first three chakras so much though; success in this domain could elevate one's sense of self-importance, and drive a man to afternoon martinis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crux Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Cocoa seemingly presents yet another thoroughly muddled projection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 hey shitfeather- get your head out of your ass- i think you are getting high on fumes from your own turd! you are just one dumb fuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Grow a pair angry euro shit sack. I'll wipe my ass with your green card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 (edited) You're a Seattle limousine liberal! Classic. Call it what you want - I still call it unemployed. Frankly, I'm having a difficult time believing your story. Your tinfoil hat and ability to copy-and-paste notwithstanding, you haven't come across here as all that bright. Interesting indeed...and important to have top of mind as context for his paradigm. Let me guess..... "Higher ordinary income tax for the upper middle class and upper class wage earners (I'm living off investments and more impacted by capital gains)" "The government should provide healthcare (I could have cared less 3-years ago but now I'm self employed by choice)" "American capitalism is the enemy (but it wasn't 4 years ago when the capital markets made my options a windfall)" Nope. I've been for universal health care, same tax rate for capital gains, and properly regulated capitalism all along. I know it's hard for you and yours to conceive of a person who doesn't vote their wallet, but there you have it. I'm not really sure what 'top of mind in context for his paradigm' means...not all that bright enough, don't you know. I also love the instant assumption by those who worship (and resent) wealth most that 'financially independent' means rich. Edited November 12, 2007 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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