Tying a knot in the rappel rope

[spotly]

If you're looking for an answer, read this post or do a Google. You'll see that rappel accidents have killed a fair number of experienced climbers over the years. Not sure where your immunity comes from but I choose to believe if it can happen to one person, it can happen to another and therefore isn't something to be tossed aside as trivial like you've been doing (here and elsewhere). That's "the big deal" Doesn't mean you're an idiot if you don't use one each and every time but if you're totally dismissive of EVER using them because you just don't get "what the deal is" then you are an idiot.

[Gary_Yngve]

the only reason somebody made a mistake and rapped of the end of their rope is because they were not paying attention. If you are paying attention then it is perfectly safe. Done it many times, and I have not died once. I will not ever rappel of the end of a rope if I am paying attention. Seriously, you want to spend the least time possible with logistics when you are in the mountains.

 

:tdown:

[ashw_justin]

Looks like he took it back, might as well let him off the hook Gary, nobody will appreciate reading that.

 

Rap however you want man. This thread is about tying knots in the rope, even though most of us usually don't. Some people might find it safer.

[jmace]

there must be a dozen unsafe ways- enough to keep this thread going for a long time

 

what about these reverso's...they seem to offer another level of danger to rappels

[Gary_Yngve]

How so with the reverso? Depending on whether you rig it for high friction or low friction?

[jmace]

I geuss just having that choice has caused some problems..seems like I have read a few accounts of people not rigging them right and going a tad too fast

[Dechristo]

How so with the reverso? Depending on whether you rig it for high friction or low friction?

 

It was reported Lara Kellog was rapping on a 8.5mm. Takes a lot more friction for control on a single of that size.

 

That's a good point, Gary.

[jmace]

Would the friction on the device be different if it was a regular rappel as opposed to a single strand ?

[Dechristo]

of course, half for single strand as opposed to double.

[tvashtarkatena]

You can greatly increase the rap friction for a thinner (or single) rope by rigging a runner (or two) from your harness to the rap device instead of rapping right off your harness. This narrows the combined angles at which the rope passes through your device to your breaking hand, increasing friction accordingly. In balmy weather, this eliminates the need to carry rap gloves, and increases your control when rapping in icy conditions.

[mattp]

I like this also because it allows you to comfortably keep both hands on the "tail" end of the rappel rope. When rapping on 8.5 mm ropes, I still don't get enough friction out of any belay device I've used, and I employ a leg wrap or something if it is an overhanging rappel, but having both hands below the rap device, even for a lower angle rappel, is comforting. .

[jmace]

Yes but just more crap to deal with when rapping...these reverso's although nice for some things seem to really lose their appeal for rapping.

 

Maybe the ATC or ATC guide would be a beter choice for keeping things simmple. Especially in the mountains where we constantly are using thin and sometimes iced up ropes

[jmace]

I am 160 pds and have had no issues with my ATC on dry ropes both on my twins 7.5 or my doubles 8.5..I did however start moving too quickly on iced up ropes before.

[mattp]

Yes but just more crap to deal with when rapping...

Yes and no. My usual practice is to take one of the newer looking sewn shoulder length runners from my rack and simply girth hitch it to my harness. Then I put my locker and rappel device on the end of that runner, and the result is that the rappel device is nowhere near any pack belt or shirt tail or anything else I have on my waist. Quite often, it results in one LESS thing to deal with. The damn thing swings around a bit when I'm standing at a ledge pulling and resetting the rappel, though.

 

I am 160 pds and have had no issues with my ATC on dry ropes both on my twins 7.5 or my doubles 8.5...

Now you're making me feel bad. I guess I better check out the Zone Diet thread.

[G-spotter]

I am 160 pds

 

 

What do they say, everyone on teh internets is 5 years older and 10 lbs. heavier in real life?

[Blake]

If you want more friction for a slower/more controlled rappel, I have always found that just adding another carbiner (even a nonlocker) alongside my HMS locking rappel/belay biner does the trick. It cause the rope to make a sharper bend, and it wont feed as well.

[billcoe]

If you want more friction for a slower/more controlled rappel, I have always found that just adding another carbiner (even a nonlocker) alongside my HMS locking rappel/belay biner does the trick. It cause the rope to make a sharper bend, and it wont feed as well.

 

Which is the recommended method of belaying Ivan as well when he's leading at his limit Blake.

[ken4ord]

Yes but just more crap to deal with when rapping...

Yes and no. My usual practice is to take one of the newer looking sewn shoulder length runners from my rack and simply girth hitch it to my harness. Then I put my locker and rappel device on the end of that runner, and the result is that the rappel device is nowhere near any pack belt or shirt tail or anything else I have on my waist. Quite often, it results in one LESS thing to deal with. The damn thing swings around a bit when I'm standing at a ledge pulling and resetting the rappel, though.

 

 

I also like using a sling girth hitched to my harness for the same reason Matt mentioned. I also attach an additional locker biner to the sling, that way when I rap down to the next anchor, I can clip in and continue to rappel until tight on the sling, this helps reduce the chance of shock loading the anchor.

 

Things you do need to be aware of while rapping with your device on a sling, yeah the pack straps and clothing is not near the rappel device, but your hair is. You need to be aware of long hair especially. It is quite painful getting stuck to your device. To make matters worse, when you rappeling from a sling it is extremely difficult to ascend up the rope even on a slab. That means if your hair get stuck you better have a knife handy. Also make sure you don't pass your rope on the way down (ie make sure your ends are down), because getting back up to it is hard to do.

[tvashtarkatena]

If you want more friction for a slower/more controlled rappel, I have always found that just adding another carbiner (even a nonlocker) alongside my HMS locking rappel/belay biner does the trick. It cause the rope to make a sharper bend, and it wont feed as well.

 

Which is the recommended method of belaying Ivan as well when he's leading at his limit Blake.

 

I found that clipping an engine block to my harness helps when belaying Ivan, although it's a little less dynamic.

[ivan]

If you want more friction for a slower/more controlled rappel, I have always found that just adding another carbiner (even a nonlocker) alongside my HMS locking rappel/belay biner does the trick. It cause the rope to make a sharper bend, and it wont feed as well.

 

Which is the recommended method of belaying Ivan as well when he's leading at his limit Blake.

i'm just big-boned

 

i usually use 2 biners when rappeling

[high_on_rock]

I am a two biner guy myself Ivan. It is fun sometimes to watch those skinny people suffer when they get cold and hungry.

[tbunch]

Since a knot in the end of a rope can freakishly pull through at least some rappel devices (Jim Madsen, 1968, Dihedral Wall, El Cap), I don't want any part of my caffeine deprived, cold or terror-addled brain thinking I'm protected. If my rope is icy and I can't see what I'm rappelling into, I just tie the ends around my neck.

[Weekend_Climberz]

Things you do need to be aware of while rapping with your device on a sling, yeah the pack straps and clothing is not near the rappel device, but your hair is. You need to be aware of long hair especially. It is quite painful getting stuck to your device. To make matters worse, when you rappeling from a sling it is extremely difficult to ascend up the rope even on a slab. That means if your hair get stuck you better have a knife handy.

 

Yes, rappelling with a sling is bad (at least for me).

 

I usually flip my reverso and add a biner or two. Apparently my skinny ass ain't so skinny anymore and I now usually weigh considerably more than my partners.

[sk]

I am a two biner guy myself Ivan. It is fun sometimes to watch those skinny people suffer when they get cold and hungry.

 

the longest free rap i have done so far i wasn't wearing a pack and i literally had to feed the rope through my atc to keep moving. but that could be because i am a bit of a nervous rappeller and go kinda slow. cus my butt ain't that small

[pms]

here's another method for increasing friction when needed. clip any carabiner through a leg loop on you harness. Run the brake end of the rappel rope through the leg loop biner. this second 180 degree bend in the rope adds friction. It's a bit akward holding the rope up when you're used to down, but is one way to add friction that's easy to go in and out of. sorry if someone already mentioned this