Crazy F*ckers and Mr. Glock

[RuMR]

I do not know how to add the neat little "quote thingy"

 

but this is in reply to ivan.

 

"how essential is gun ownership in 2007 compared to 1797?

 

at our countries founding current situation we were in close contact with hostile indian tribes countries and nation-states psychos far more powerful sicker than us - most americans lived on the frontiers cities or in the sticks ghettos and needed their weapons for home defense and obtaining meat keeping the neighbor from raping thier daughters - the police were quite primitive undermanned and under gunned, could not be called quickly and were to busy to get to every call, and could not be counted on at all for protection, certainly not rapidly- our armies were equally unreliable and a strong militia of self-equipped citizens was essential to repel attacks for which we would have virtually no warning

 

which of those conditions is still so pressing today?"

 

I think all of them concern me very much, but I am just a gun nut.

 

 

 

yeeeup....yer just a nut...with a gun...but still a nut

[RuMR]

You forgot to do this part our armies were equally unreliable and a strong militia of self-equipped citizens was essential to repel attacks for which we would have virtually no warning. Or are you going to convince us that there is any conceivable serious attack on the country of the United States of America in which private handgun ownership would make a lick of difference?

you ever see red dawn, bitch??? That's factual, man, totally factual...

 

[tvashtarkatena]

My particle beam weapon got a crow this morning.

 

In mid flight.

[deathdealer]

mmmmmmmmmmmmm............. taun taun cheeseburgers. I like mine with double cheese, and peppers!

[empire]

The true attack on America is by the treasonous liberals who want to take away your right to possess the lethal force necessary to defend yourself from evil. Liberty, Justice, and the freedom to speak with a concealed 15-round semi-automatic for all. (Well, okay, maybe not for crazy immigrants.)

[archenemy]

Thank you for the deep insight and for avoiding simplified characterization.

[fenderfour]

The true attack on America is by the treasonous liberals who want to take away your right to possess the lethal force necessary to defend yourself from evil. Liberty, Justice, and the freedom to speak with a concealed 15-round semi-automatic for all. (Well, okay, maybe not for crazy immigrants.)

 

Dude, your xenophobia is showing.

 

Let's leave it at "Crazies" pretty much everyone here started as an immigrant.

 

Not to mention the loonie from VT had been in this country for 14 years (or so).

[empire]

You're right, I'm sorry. The perpetrator's resident status is not the issue. Let's not get all Geraldo Rivera up in here.

 

_rlZvrUJecs

[wfinley]

The true attack on America is by the treasonous liberals who want to take away your right to possess the lethal force necessary to defend yourself from evil.

Wow... the gun-nuts are coming out of the woods. Last time I checked it was still legal to buy your cross and get your holy water blessed.

 

Evil is subjective. Once when I was climbing in Tennessee some local gun nut decided climbers were evil and started blasting away at my tent. Once a friend of mine was camped out for a river trip in Alaska and some gun nut decided he was evil and put a bullet through the front door of his truck.

 

Personally I think gun nuts are evil and should be locked away to target practice on each other instead of shooting at people like me.

[archenemy]

I think anyone who is a violent nut should be locked away too. Adding the word "gun" to the front of that is simply inflamatory.

[ivan]

i try to be a realist - so realistically there's no way to take away a right that's so ingrained into our national ethos - at least not without seriously thinning the herd of the republican party and radicalizing the hell out of the democrats in the process - i'm certainly not signing up for the gun collection job in such an eventuality

 

i still think the 500 foot statue of charlton heston made out of melted-down glocks would be cool

 

but you are fooling yourself if you think the usa is a better place for having all these guns in it - you are no safer, you just feel that way - i suppose illusions are more powerful than realities, and trying to wake up crazy people who are asleep is stupid-dangerous (good scene in "band of brothers" about that sorta thing)

 

red dawn was a sweet movie - i recall distinctly the way they became such a badass guerilla group was by using the primitive weapons they had (bows n' arrows) to kill those cheez-photograph-taking-godfersaken-commies and then use their more sophisticated weapons to uncage the soul, wolverine-style, on larger supply columns - i.e., you don't have to legalize rpgs and ak-47s or even semi-automatics in order to eventually defeat a more well armed opponent

[tvashtarkatena]

i still think the 500 foot statue of charlton heston made out of melted-down glocks would be cool

 

"From my cold, dead...what was I saying again?"

[Dechristo]

I suppose many would think it appropriate the statue would be plastic mostly.

[billcoe]

It could be sucessfully argued that it would be better to get the press under control.

 

Great strides could be made in limiting the amount of copycats doing crazy shit once we get the 1st amendment overruled and forgotten as well/ the right of a "Free Press" to publish whatever the F*k they want wrecks havok on many levels and causes much unhappiness and social unrest.

 

Add that to your list of things needed to pacify society and make it a more peaceful world in your march towards bliss.

 

 

[ivan]

a free press will do more to keep your goverment in line than a closet full of glocks

 

i know you were kinda joking, but what element of the press do you think so deleterious? i could deal w/ every publication in the checkout isle of safeway getting the censor's jackboot

[billcoe]

i could deal w/ every publication in the checkout isle of safeway getting the censor's jackboot

 

Newsweek, Time, US News and World Reports, The Economist, Fine Woodworking.....

 

 

BTW, I'm not going to detail how seditious and counterproductive the press truly is as it would take wayyyyy too much time. Without a closet full of Glocks, a free press is easy to control. Think about it.

 

The big point is, there is good with the bad on both of these forum agenda items/points of history and law.

 

For me, I really would rather have a free press and weapons in every damn closet in the US, and the problems which come with both, than sacrifice my freedom for a small increase in "percieved" safety.

 

But thats me. Some people use to argue that concentration camps were a positive benefit for society in Germany. And that's them. They were able to control the weapons, the press and the population using many of the arguements you all are using here.

 

Freedom my friends, is not free.

 

Freedom.

[wfinley]

I disagree that it will never change... polls show that gun ownership continues to decline - and polls also show that more and more Americans want stricter gun control.

 

Thant said -- everytime someone mentions gun control the right gets all bent out of shape and scream 'my cold dead hands." There is a huge difference between gun "control" and banning guns. No one is saying that guns should be banned - however many many people are wondering why a guy who would fail a background check in California, Minnesota and New York could walk into a Virginia store and in 20 minutes have a glock and bullets. As one interviewed woman stated "It takes me longer to do my laundry."

 

 

 

[archenemy]

Sounds like more gun control isn't the issue so much as more information control. Why aren't these databases built correctly and linked? There seem to be so many stories about how information doesn't flow between different government institutions and the institutions that need the information from them: yet I don't hear much outcry about it.

[tvashtarkatena]

By 'the Right' you mean the NRA and the legislators it backs. This organization, more than any other, is responsible for propogandizing the issue. The regulations they've fought tooth and nail include:

 

Banning of teflon tipped (cop killer) bullets.

 

Banning of assault rifles that can be easily converted to fully automatic weapons.

 

Waiting periods and backround checks for gun purchases.

 

 

The list goes on and on. None of these regulations even remotely approach a gun ban, yet that's the first manufactured argument NRA members and like minded folks reach for when discussing any reasonable limit to free access to any firearm, any time, for any one. "Freedom isn't free". "Without guns, there would have been no America". "Only criminals will have guns." "Go ahead, wait for the cops." All of these cliches flow from the NRA's national office, and none of them have anything to do with preventing the wrong people from gaining access to weapons that have no other purpose than to kill large numbers of people quickly.

 

My personal favorite is the 'arm everyone for a more polite society' idea. Let's make sure all crazies are armed (in addition to regular folks who already cannot handle driving a car safely, old men who can't see, drunks, etc...) I feel better already. Throw me a bone here; can we just omit those with an IQ lower than 50?

 

That would include the proponents of this idea, of course.

[billcoe]

I disagree that it will never change... polls show that gun ownership continues to decline - and polls also show that more and more Americans want stricter gun control.

 

That what will never change? Who you talkin too?

 

Thant said -- everytime someone mentions gun control the right gets all bent out of shape and scream 'my cold dead hands." There is a huge difference between gun "control" and banning guns. No one is saying that guns should be banned - however many many people are wondering why a guy who would fail a background check in California, Minnesota and New York could walk into a Virginia store and in 20 minutes have a glock and bullets. As one interviewed woman stated "It takes me longer to do my laundry."

 

You bet, and that arguement has been used quite sucessfully as well to show that the media can and should be restrained especially in their active depiction of violence, which is ruinous to society and has been proven to cause more violence. Nobody is saying that the media should be banned or regulated, rather that it should have the most eggresious abuses which they repeatedly display checked a little.

 

To obsensiously tighten up and improve our society just a bit: only the most eggrious books should be banned. Maybe responsible people like yourself can register to check them out with a special permit after a background check. Not all books or all media. Remember that the biggest amount of people murdered via a domestic terroism act were not killed by guns anyway. By ideas picked up from the internet. That's what we learned from Tim McVey. He learned how to make a bomb.

 

After all, don't you agree that only a criminal would object to having to register with the police or ask to keep them out of his house, and only unpatriotic Jews would refuse to register and wear the pretty yellow stars.....

 

Right, what's the big deal? We can and should fix society so that we are all safe.

[archenemy]

As far as I have read, the NRA has declined to comment so far. Has this changed in the last two days?

[billcoe]

As far as I have read, the NRA has declined to comment so far. Has this changed in the last two days?

 

dunno

[motomagik]

 

To obsensiously tighten up and improve our society just a bit: only the most eggrious books should be banned. Maybe responsible people like yourself can register to check them out with a special permit after a background check.

 

 

This is a completely ridiculous analogy.

[archenemy]

But a good invitation for other analogies.

[archenemy]

The pen is mightier than the sword, so perhaps knowledge is more dangerous than guns?