Blackwater

[chucK]

Why? This will increase his (executive branch) power even further. After all, the executive branch is the one that enforces the laws (unless a special prosecutor happens).

 

Plus 389-30 seems fairly veto proof.

 

Why do you think he vetoed that SCHIP thing? I can't think of a worse thing (politically) to veto in order to demonstrate fiscal restraint. The only other thing I can think of would be the cigarette tax thing.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Why? This will increase his (executive branch) power even further. After all, the executive branch is the one that enforces the laws (unless a special prosecutor happens).

 

Plus 389-30 seems fairly veto proof.

 

Why do you think he vetoed that SCHIP thing? I can't think of a worse thing (politically) to veto in order to demonstrate fiscal restraint. The only other thing I can think of would be the cigarette tax thing.

 

I dunno why. He seems to have veto bug now.

[canyondweller]

This seems like a step in the right direction.

 

----------

WASHINGTON -- The House passed a bill Thursday that would make all private contractors working in Iraq and other combat zones subject to prosecution by U.S. courts. It was the first major legislation of its kind to pass since a deadly shootout last month involving Blackwater employees.

 

Democrats called the 389-30 vote an indictment of the shooting incident there that left 11 Iraqis dead. Senate Democratic leaders said they planned to follow suit with similar legislation and send a bill to President Bush as soon as possible.

----------------

 

 

Though I sorta wish the Dems didn't feel the need to grandstand that this was an "indictment". Talk about poor winners.

 

full article on washingtonpost.com

 

Erik Prince, President of Blackwater USA, agrees with you.

[Serenity]

If you guys really want to be indignant, why don't you argue about the privatized outsourcing of your credit ratings to Equifax, TransUnion, and Experian. Now there is an evil racket designed to suck you dry.

 

[Serenity]

Uh yeah, it's a war.

 

Ambush Injures Polish Diplomat in Iraq

By KIM CURTIS

 

BAGHDAD (AP) — A daring ambush of bombs and gunfire left Poland's ambassador pinned down in a burning vehicle Wednesday before being pulled to safety and airlifted in a rescue mission by the embattled security firm Blackwater USA. At least three people were killed, including a Polish bodyguard.

 

The attack — apparently well planned in one of Baghdad's most secure neighborhoods — raised questions about whether it sought to punish Poland for its contributions to the U.S.-led military force in Iraq. But Poland's prime minister, Jaroslaw Kaczynski, said his nation would not retreat "in the face of terrorists."

 

The diplomatic convoy was hit by three bombs and then attackers opened fire in the Shiite-controlled Karradah district. Polish guards returned fire as the injured ambassador, Gen. Edward Pietrzyk, was pulled from his burning vehicle. At least 10 people, including four Polish security agents, were wounded.

 

U.S. Embassy officials dispatched Blackwater helicopters to evacuate the ambassador and others. Blackwater was not involved in protecting the Polish convoy.

 

Pietrzyk, who was commander of ground forces in Poland before taking the ambassador post in April, suffered minor burns over 20 percent of his body, including his head and right arm and leg, said Polish Charge d'Affaires Waldemar Figaj.

 

"They were waiting for us," Figaj told The Associated Press as he gave details of the attack.

 

Shortly after the assault, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki renewed his government's offensive against Blackwater.

 

"There have been 190 victims of Blackwater ... The kind of accusations leveled against the company means it is not fit to work in Iraq," he told a news conference.

 

It was not known if al-Maliki knew Blackwater rescued the Polish envoy. It also was not clear if the 190 victims represented a new figure arising from an Iraqi investigation or a reference to the 195 incidents involving the U.S. security company outlined in a House report earlier this week.

 

Congress is looking into Blackwater's role in a Sept. 16 shootout that left 11 Iraqis dead in a west Baghdad intersection and other incidents by the Moyock, N.C.-based company, which protects U.S. diplomats and others in Iraq.

 

Diplomatic missions or foreign envoys in Iraq have been attacked at least seven times since the war began, including the July 2005 kidnapping and murder of Egypt's ambassador.

 

Poland, a staunch U.S. ally, contributed combat troops to the 2003 U.S.-led invasion and has since led a multinational division south of Baghdad. About 900 Polish troops remain in the country training Iraqi personnel; 21 Poles have died during the conflict.

 

Last year, the Polish government extended its mission in Iraq until the end of 2007, but has made no decision on next year.

 

Pietrzyk was treated at the U.S. military hospital in the fortified Green Zone and later flown to Warsaw.

 

"He is going to be fine," Figaj said. "He is stable, but he needs rest."

 

Two Iraqi passers-by also were killed in the 10 a.m. blasts, according to an Iraqi police official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to release the information.

 

A Polish security guard, Bartosz Orzechowski, 29, died at the hospital, said Poland's Interior Minister Wladyslaw Stasiak. The slain guard had been employed by the service since 2004.

 

Robert Szaniawski, a spokesman for the Polish Foreign Ministry, said officials "don't have the reasons for the attack," which destroyed three armored vehicles just a few hundred yards from the Polish Embassy.

 

But Figaj noted that Poland is a "strong U.S. ally and you can make your own conclusions."

 

Polish Foreign Minister Anna Fotyga said officials planned to move the embassy into the Green Zone.

 

"Backing out in the face of terrorists is the worst possible solution and I trust that the Poles, who are a brave nation, will not desert the battle field," said Poland's prime minister, Kaczynski. "We must fight terrorism and that entails a certain risk."

 

U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker and Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. military commander in Iraq, issued a joint statement condemning the attack.

 

"Poland has been a strong and steadfast ally here and around the world, and we commend its commitment to a stable and secure Iraq," the statement said. "We stand ready to provide any additional assistance we can."

 

American authorities confiscated an AP Television News videotape that contained scenes of the wounded being evacuated. U.S. military spokesman Lt. Col. Scott Bleichwehl told AP that Iraqi law make it illegal to photograph or videotape the aftermath of bombings or other attacks

 

[dt_3pin]

If you guys really want to be indignant, why don't you argue about the privatized outsourcing of your credit ratings to Equifax, TransUnion, and Experian. Now there is an evil racket designed to suck you dry.

 

Pay your bills on time and you shouldn't have too much of a problem. Works better than indignancy.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

If you guys really want to be indignant, why don't you argue about the privatized outsourcing of your credit ratings to Equifax, TransUnion, and Experian. Now there is an evil racket designed to suck you dry.

 

Pay your bills on time and you shouldn't have too much of a problem. Works better than indignancy.

 

Except when there is a snafu, and a burden of prooving innocence to get it corrected.

[dt_3pin]

If you guys really want to be indignant, why don't you argue about the privatized outsourcing of your credit ratings to Equifax, TransUnion, and Experian. Now there is an evil racket designed to suck you dry.

 

Pay your bills on time and you shouldn't have too much of a problem. Works better than indignancy.

 

 

Except when there is a snafu, and a burden of prooving innocence to get it corrected.

 

True dat. Do you think the government would provide better services than the private sector with respect to credit scoring?

[JosephH]

Blackwater was to guard the FBI team heading to Iraq to investigate Blackwater.

--------------------------------------------------

 

Some farces, it turns out, can be avoided. The FBI team traveling to Iraq at the behest of the State Department to assist in the investigation of Blackwater's September 16 shooting at Nisour Square was supposed to be guarded by... Blackwater. However, the State Department's Bureau of Diplomatic Security realized yesterday that the ensuing conflict of interest would be just too egregious.

 

Under Blackwater's State Department contract, the company provides security for all official travel outside the U.S.-protected Green Zone. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said that security for the team would be handled by the department's Diplomatic Security Service.

 

Of course, the DSS needed a bit of prompting, which is perhaps to be expected after chief Richard Griffin's vigorous defense of Blackwater on Tuesday. In a letter, Sen. Pat Leahy (D-VT) urged Condoleezza Rice to step back from the precipice of absurdity.

[billcoe]

 

I'm all for pulling out of Iraq and watching them tear one another apart one another apart in the vacuum.

 

Mike, you serious? Does that not make for a huge change in YOUR attitude and thoughts on this whole thing?

 

My own thoughts have remained consistent, and that is, I opposed the invasion going in a huge way, we were stupid for going in there originally. I consoled myself by thinking that "they" must have a complex, indepth plan for addressing Iran in the endgame. That was only wishful thinking on my part. This group has made some real basic errors. From the very start you see things such as overriding folks like General Shinseki (Chairman of the joint chiefs who was advocating a larger force than Rumsfeld wanted) and then tossing him out of the military like a used Kleenex (as Joseph alluded to above).

 

In my opinion, now, the best course of action going forward is to see this through and bring one of the worlds greatest known reserves of oil out for Americans to rapidly burn in their SUVS. We MUST finish the job. MUST! We have spent the massive national treasure in this "investment."

 

I'm not kidding. I felt that in invading Iraq, we as a country took our eye off the ball which was and remains Nuclear weapon proliferation in several unfriendly or marginal countries (Iran, N. Korea, Pakistan and Syria come to mind, there are others) and the increase of China as a competitor.

 

Love to see fuel conservation happen and the need to go get whipsawed in actions like this disappear.

 

Although I see my fellow citizens changing their thoughts about as fast as they change their underware, I try not to do that myself. However, seeing Bushs recent wholesale rejection of the Baker commissions report has pretty much left me feeling that any failing 3rd grader could do Bush's job better than he could, and I may be wrong on my attitute that staying and finishing the job is the best course of action. Noting Josephs post that we are in a no-win situation, staying or leaving is a losing proposition either way, what do you say?

 

What's your take on the best course of action going forward?

 

BTW, since it hasn't been said yet, thanks for spending the time to edumacate us all, as the news is often a poor source of information as you are aware, viewpoints such as yours take on considerably more importance.

 

Regards

 

 

[JosephH]

That is one of the saddest points of all this - we'll have basically squandered a trillion dollars by the time this is over. And, not unlike the Internet boom and bust, whose only outcome after a trillion dollars traded hands was to teach a generation that content is "free", the sole beneficiaries of this trillion dollars is our advesaries: China, Iran, OBL, and the very terrorists we presumably set out after. We will have further destablized and inflamed the Middle East and, due to a complete failure to bolster defenses at home, left our country more vunerable than ever to terrorist attacks.

 

Again, the scope and scale of the economic, geopolitical, and military incompetence displayed by this administration in their blind pursuit of a neocon fantasy is absolutely breathtaking. This level of incompetence alone - devoid of intent and deception - could almost be considered treasonous.

[mattp]

If you guys really want to be indignant, why don't you argue about the privatized outsourcing of your credit ratings to Equifax, TransUnion, and Experian. Now there is an evil racket designed to suck you dry.

 

Pay your bills on time and you shouldn't have too much of a problem. Works better than indignancy.

 

Except when there is a snafu, and a burden of prooving innocence to get it corrected.

 

No kidding. But it is not just the credit agencies - the banking industry is much the same way.

[Fairweather]

 

Again, the scope and scale of the economic, geopolitical, and military incompetence displayed by this administration in their blind pursuit of a neocon fantasy is absolutely breathtaking. This level of incompetence alone - devoid of intent and deception - could almost be considered treasonous.

 

Considering your professed background, your lack of historical perspective is astounding. By your logic, we should have arrested virtually every president of the twentieth century - with the possible exceptions of Taft, Harding, Coolidge, Ford, and Carter. Now, authorizing the sale of missile staging technology to Chinese agents in exchange for campaign cash...that was possibly treasonous.

[Dechristo]

companies are fucking the American public in the wrong orifices

 

When getting fucked by a corporation, which orifice is (((correct)))?

 

8D

 

the "back pocket"

[Serenity]

If you guys really want to be indignant, why don't you argue about the privatized outsourcing of your credit ratings to Equifax, TransUnion, and Experian. Now there is an evil racket designed to suck you dry.

 

Pay your bills on time and you shouldn't have too much of a problem. Works better than indignancy.

 

I pay my bills on time. That was the point I was making.

[scott_harpell]

There are 3 methods to dealing with the necessity of private contractors:

 

1) Rationally deal with their existance; citing the need for security of those trying to write policy in Iraq and bring stability through policy.

 

2) Apathy: not dealing or processing what is going on and the human toll it takes to oust a murdering dictator and effect positive change.

 

3) Vilify those who have the balls to put their neck on the line to protect those highly paid politicians who cry for their necks moments after their lives were saved by their brave actions.

 

War is ugly. It is a necessity. I know you don't want to accept the reality that War is sometimes needed to precipitate much needed change but it is impossible to change a country ruled by savage aggression with anything else than aggression.

 

The duty of a soldier is not to kill. It is, in fact to accomplish missions which cumulatively will win the battle/war. Death is a cause of this; not the aim.

 

It is easy to call the actions of the men of Blackwater savage or criminal from the comfort of a cubicle. The U.S. is protected from the reality of War and the certainty of death is hidden from them to pacify them. In many countries, War is a daily reality.

 

I don't expect you to realize this as it has been hidden from you since conception; The World and Life are violent things. No matter how brutal the media states are streets are, we live in an extremely safe place guarded from tyrrany and oppresssion; allowed to speak our minds and call those that protect us "pigs" and "murderers."

 

We live in a wonderful country fraught with many problems. Taxes are not the greatest of them nor is crime or unemployment rates or a president who many deem to be behind the power curve. Our main problem is the blinders we CHOOSE to wear, the apathy which prevents us from doing the right thing no matter what the cost and a decadent lifestyle which is perceived as a birthright rather than a product of ones' work and aspirations.

 

 

[canyondweller]

Well said, my young friend. I'm glad to see you back home, and safe.

 

CD

[pdawg]

Scott,

 

I agree with you. The world is a savage place and we are an appallingly fat, spoiled and decadent culture. I also understand that our day-to-day wealth derives largely from military power and, to a point, I am grateful for that. That said, when defining the blinders that prevent us from doing the right thing in Iraq, I'm wondering what your vision of success is. Does it concern democracy, or does it concern oil?

 

The people who began this war were fond of recounting how Saddam had killed 300,000 of his countrymen. That was over, what, a thirty year period? By most accounts, in the last five years upwards of half a million Iraqis have died. While a majority of them were not killed by our troops, we were the force that set the slaughter in motion.

 

Is that the fault of American troops? Hell, no. In the highly hypothetical presumption that I was walking a Blackwater beat in Baghdad, would I hold my fire if I was unsure of an approaching car? I doubt it. The morality of warfare is not at question, nor are the actions of any combatants.

 

The problem is the perverse melding of government and private sector. The problem is the naked greed of the entire class of people who sent Americans to die in a third world country over what amounted to little more than bedtime stories. And they're making millions off it.

 

Maybe the men of Blackwater are all deeply patriotic. But they're making a lot of money even as they choose to be there. The ordinary troops aren't- so in my mind, they're the guys making the sacrifice. The Blackwater guys are just making a profit.

 

This could probably be more articulate, but I work with my hands and daylight's fading. I look forward to reading your definition of success.

 

Edited October 6, 2007 by pdawg

[Dechristo]

Edwards tries to smear Hillary by publicizing ties to Blackwater.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Edwards tries to smear Hillary by publicizing ties to Blackwater.

 

Of all the candidates vying for a nomination in either party, Edwards is the most slimy and despicable.

[pdawg]

I have trouble giving a shit about Blackwater personnel when I read stuff like this. This is the MBA leadership at its worst.

 

"MINNEAPOLIS, MN (NBC) -- When they came home from Iraq, 2,600 members of the Minnesota National Guard had been deployed longer than any other ground combat unit. The tour lasted 22 months and had been extended as part of President Bush's surge.

 

1st Lt. Jon Anderson said he never expected to come home to this: A government refusing to pay education benefits he says he should have earned under the GI bill.

 

"It's pretty much a slap in the face," Anderson said. "I think it was a scheme to save money, personally. I think it was a leadership failure by the senior Washington leadership... once again failing the soldiers."

 

Anderson's orders, and the orders of 1,161 other Minnesota guard members, were written for 729 days.

 

Had they been written for 730 days, just one day more, the soldiers would receive those benefits to pay for school.

 

"Which would be allowing the soldiers an extra $500 to $800 a month," Anderson said.

 

That money would help him pay for his master's degree in public administration. It would help Anderson's fellow platoon leader, John Hobot, pay for a degree in law enforcement.

 

"I would assume, and I would hope, that when I get back from a deployment of 22 months, my senior leadership in Washington, the leadership that extended us in the first place, would take care of us once we got home," Hobot said.

 

Both Hobot and Anderson believe the Pentagon deliberately wrote orders for 729 days instead of 730."

[Dechristo]

fuckers

[tvashtarkatena]

War is ugly. It is a necessity. I know you don't want to accept the reality that War is sometimes needed to precipitate much needed change but it is impossible to change a country ruled by savage aggression with anything else than aggression.

 

What a complete load of shite. The Iraq war was a necessity?

 

It's not even a fucking war (who is the the enemy this week? where's the front?), for Christ's sake; it's a wholly unnecessary occupation. Our aggression has precipitated change all right, although it wasn't much needed, nor was it in the right direction. As is so often the case when a nation blows smoke up its own ass, the aggressor (us) incorrectly assumed that our adversaries would just lay down when our swinging cocks blew into town. "Get a LOAD of us!". Well, guess what; our aggression set off a more aggressive and probably unstoppable chain reaction; and now the bus we rode in on is on fire and in a ditch, and some of us are still too fucking full of ourselves to admit it. That fact that there is even a debate as to whether the situation is fucked or whether or not we should pull out is proof of the kind of national stupidity that, incredibly at this juncture, is still echoed by a dwindling true believers like Mr. Harpell. War is ugly...and it's almost always the worst possible course of action, out of many, that a nation can take. Harpell assumes that our character flaw as a nation is lack of will, apathy, or weakness, but perhaps what he's looking down on from his cliche addled perch is the first step towards recovering from any fuck up: the intelligence and maturity to accept that you've fucked up. Without this step, no recovery is possible.

Edited October 6, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[joblo7]

you assume there was intention to leave. as long as they fail, they have to stay.they will make sure we do.

like enron, to the profiteers, iraq is a resounding success.

[STP]

With press like this ( Pilot said 'this is fun' before fatal Blackwater crash ) it's no wonder they'd hired public relations giant Burson-Marsteller .