Rescue Statistics: Let's outlaw hiking $ boating

[tvashtarkatena]

Hikers, boaters, and 'other' (presumably park visitors with various health problems) account for the vast majority of resuce costs in our national parks. Climbers account for less than 3% of those costs:

 

National Park SAR Statistics

 

The National Park Service has consistently recommended against evacuees paying the cost of rescue because most middle income people which make up the vast majority of visitors cannot afford to pay them. They have, instead, opted to absorb such costs into their annual budget, so that everyone has access to our National Parks, not just the wealthy.

 

Any proposal to target climbers to bear the burden of rescue costs must also target every park visitor; swimmers, boaters, hikers, pilots, and especially casual 'non-adventure' tourists, as the latter group accounts for largest number of rescue incidents; 20 times more than climbers.

 

Outside of National Parks, hunting and fishing should also be banned, because the number of rescues required for these groups far outweighs those needed for climbers.

 

In short, everyone just stay home.

[mtn_mouse]

Hikers, boaters, and 'other' (presumably park visitors with various health problems) account for the vast majority of resuce costs in our national parks. Climbers account for less than 3% of those costs:

 

Having been a climbing ranger at Rainier, I totally agree with those facts. The majority of carryoffs off the mountain were tourists hiking up above Paradise, or fishermen getting into trouble. Major climbing accidents just attract a lot of attention from the media. You don't see news programs rushing to report the story of 300 pound Bubba who has developed back trouble because of his weight, being carried off the mountain.

[tvashtarkatena]

As for the oft cited "why are our tax dollars being spent on these rescues"? I would counter with this:

 

What better and more noble way to spend our tax dollars than to save lives? Given that the entire National Parks Service's annual budget for rescue is 400 times less then what we spend in Iraq EVERY DAY, I'd say we get pretty good value for our money. We happily pay for firetrucks, 911, EMTs, which often must respond to accidents which are clearly caused by negligence or worse. Why should rescue operations be any different?

 

In addition, rescues provide the kind of training and interagency cooperation with will certainly pay off manifold in the event of a more widespread regional disaster such as an earthquake. Such a disaster would require the kind of rapid, well honed response that requires agencies that have already worked closely together in real life emergencies.

[Couloir]

Now this is a worthwhile stand alone topic. Thanks for getting it started.

[CatsClaw]

Then you have rosie o donnell and some other women on a talk show saying stupid things (that this search has cost 2.5 million) and other yammering

 

wheres the duct tape....

 

http://www.katu.com/home/video/4965301.html

 

 

 

 

 

[ericb]

a)...that figure is a bunch of bullshit....I'm guessing the military$ are chalked up as a training exercise.

 

b)...how much did her network make on advertising by stirring it up into a media frenzy?

Edited December 20, 2006 by ericb

[tvashtarkatena]

a)...that figure is a bunch of bullshit....I'm guessing the military$ are chalked up as a training exercise.

 

 

No guessing about it. They did, and they usually do. Most of rescuers were either volunteers or would be on the clock anyway, ie, they're already paid for.

[letsroll]

a) Who gives a rip what Rosie O Donnell cares. She just read one story two sentences long and she knows all.

 

b) Ya ericb I wonder as well. That would pay for a lot of SAR.

 

c) Everybody who goes outdoors on a trail for anything should pay the $200 fee Rosie Fatt A$$ proposes.

[layton]

I thought they (Rosie's pecking crew) had a descent point

[sk]

a)...that figure is a bunch of bullshit....I'm guessing the military$ are chalked up as a training exercise.

 

b)...how much did her network make on advertising by stirring it up into a media frenzy?

 

we pay the military no matter what they are doing.

 

I am under the impression that the majority of folks up there looking are volunteers, people who climb as a hobbie and out of passion. these are the same folks that will haul joe schmoe off the lower part of the mountain if he or she hikes to far or gets lost.

 

I too would be interested in seeing what this really cost VS how much it cost the news and tv people to report misinformation. i am sure that this rescue cost a minuscule amount of money compared to how much Rosie O'Donnell gets paid to share her "opinion" on tv.

[letsroll]

How about this, Who paid to drive the media up in the snowcat?

[ericb]

Perhaps we should ask Rosie what morbid obesity costs the American tax-payer

[mike_m]

Having seen those reports before, they generally do include the costs of the military helicopters; ericb is right, though, the fuel, crew hours etc all come out of the unit's training allowances so it's not an "out-of-pocket" expense. If the unit wasn't using those dollars for the rescue mission, they'd be using them for other training purposes. The military crews I've worked with all love doing SAR work, providing very realistic training for their 'real" mission.

[kevbone]

Gee, what would you all do if they outlawed CC.com. No more chat rooms.

[sk]

I thought they (Rosie's pecking crew) had a descent point

 

point taken... however we all also knew the levies in New Orleans were going to break eventually. that was predicted as well. however, people still chose to live there.

[sk]

Perhaps we should ask Rosie what morbid obesity costs the American tax-payer

 

that was along the lines of my next comment. if we have to pay a licensing fee to climb i think the people that eat at Macdonald's should have to pay a licensing fee just in case they have a heart attack.

[tvashtarkatena]

The bottom line is; this issue is peanuts compared to the gross waste in government, particularly federal, expenditures. In fact, this is one area, considering how much volunteer labor is employed and how vital the results are for the folks involved, that ISN'T a waste of money.

 

This government has botched Iraq, Katrina, the Medicare bill, the list is endless, to the tune of hundreds of billions, and this rescue is a problem that requires our urgent attention?

 

This rescue captured so much national attention because a) it was a slow news week and b) it coincided with some historically large storms (DISASTER!), which always sells pretty well.

 

The minute something else catches the press's attention (that we're not already sick of), that'll be the last we'll hear of it.

[LandShark]

Gee, what would you all do if they outlawed CC.com. No more chat rooms.

 

No no you mean no more blogs. Dumb ass. Chat rooms are so 2004.

[ericb]

Perhaps we should ask Rosie what morbid obesity costs the American tax-payer

 

that was along the lines of my next comment. if we have to pay a licensing fee to climb i think the people that eat at Macdonald's should have to pay a licensing fee just in case they have a heart attack.

 

closet republican

[sk]

Perhaps we should ask Rosie what morbid obesity costs the American tax-payer

 

that was along the lines of my next comment. if we have to pay a licensing fee to climb i think the people that eat at Macdonald's should have to pay a licensing fee just in case they have a heart attack.

 

closet republican

 

ya cut me, ya cut me real deep

[chris]

I spent some time on Mono County SAR during the 1990's in eastern California, and the sheriff's office did something inventive. Instead of billing the rescued or the family, he simply sent an invoice of the costs and information on how to donate to the SAR team. It was a powerfully effective method.

 

One cost that keeps getting overlooked, it seems, is the cost of volunteers. Sure, nobody's paying them to do the rescue, but nobody is paying them ! Most employers simply allow SAR team members (like volunteer firefighters), to take unpaid time off for call-outs. So there is a cost - in lost wages - that these volunteers are taking the hit on. Never did figure a way to compensate the volunteers. And on big searches like the past week's, that's a big hit.

[Mal_Con]

I was in Mountain Rescue out of China Lake, CA in the late 70's. The Navy was very good about time off for rescues and even practice. They considered it good PR.Most of the people involved just loved the mountains and it served as an informal climbing club.

[Valid ASB]

if a climber is rescued by an agency that is funded by tax dollars then why would you ask the climber to re-imburse the agency for doing the job that they are funded to do ?

[sobo]

It's all here in the AAC report.

 

If the 8 pages of reading might cause you armchair mountaineers out there to miss the lead-in of the next installment of Rosie's show, just skip to the Executive Summary.

[archenemy]

if a climber is rescued by an agency that is funded by tax dollars then why would you ask the climber to re-imburse the agency for doing the job that they are funded to do ?

I ask a question much like this every time I get another letter from my Alma Mater asking for a donation. I think, "Hey, didn't I already pay these guys?"