Another Mt Hood Stupid Comment

[rob]

Well yes I do. I was originally responding to remarks about climbing the mountain anyway, regardless of what SAR was doing, and of course petty remarks about the US Military need to fired upon. Climbing is great, but it's risks must be managed. Many climbers see the whole thing as a suicide pact: do what they want when they want regardless of weather, SAR needs or other considerations.

 

That doesn't sound like a suicide pact to me. I thought a suicide pact was when two or more people all agree to kill themselves, or something.

[Weekend_Climberz]

BobC,

 

I don't want anyone coming and looking for my sorry ass when the shit hits the fan. I am making copies of this statement for my lawyer, posting it here for witnesses, and having it added to my Last Will and Testament and noterized.

[G-spotter]

He's got Suicide Pact confused with Temporary Autonomous Zone.

[W]

Many climbers see the whole thing as a suicide pact: do what they want when they want regardless of weather, SAR needs or other considerations.

 

What a load of bollocks. I worked in SAR for many years and while I've seen many situations where climbers made foolish choices, I've never met anyone who was so supremely ignorant of the consequences of their decisions that your statement advocates. In the context of the recent incident, you seem to suggest that these guys charged headlong up the mountain without a care to anyone or even themselves. That is at best uninformed, speculative hyperbole.

 

Almost every climber realizes fully that decisions in the mountains might be life or death, not only for themselves but for others. At least part of the attraction of climbing is the immediacy of such situations and the level of responsibility one must assume for one's actions. Most climbers are painfully aware of this relationship, but regardless, they are still human and subject to making mistakes; like any segment of our species, some pay the ultimate price for those mistakes. I would suggest that climbers are more in touch with the immediacy of their own lives than most other people; the only other group that might compare is soldiers in combat.

 

In the end, simply being there is a choice; but your assumption is poor and off base.

[BobC]

I think the first couple of pages of this thread make my point. Finding a way to justify not staying out SAR's way is proof enough. And who doubts that the vast majority of deaths related to climbing are human factor driven? Since the human factors are so easily mitigated, yet so frequently ignored well....

[Weekend_Climberz]

the only other group that might compare is soldiers in combat.

 

As a matter of fact, I can think of at least one climber who trains special ops soldiers for the US.

[Mr_Phil]

I think the first couple of pages of this thread make my point. Finding a way to justify not staying out SAR's way is proof enough.

 

This makes no sense. What does this have to do with suicide?

 

And who doubts that the vast majority of deaths related to climbing are human factor driven? Since the human factors are so easily mitigated, yet so frequently ignored well....

 

This is true of climbing.

 

This is true of just about every other accident situation, from driving to using small appliances. Are you saying that all drivers and their passengers are in suicide pacts?

 

[BobC]

I think better comparisons are the one's Hemingway made: Bull Riders and Race Car Drivers. Climbing and Combat? Well, climbing is just another way to get to the fight. Combat is something completely different.

[BobC]

Climbing is much more dangerous than the other things you mention. It's suicide when you don't do things to mitigate the danger, consciously or not.

[Cobra_Commander]

Lessons to learn:

 

1. Winter on Mt. Hood is unforgiving. You might die.

 

2. Before climbing Mt. Hood, make sure quality stock photos of you are on file.

[rob]

This forum needs some post-Hood cleansing.

 

Dr. Flush, can't you help?

[Mr_Phil]

Climbing is much more dangerous than the other things you mention. It's suicide when you don't do things to mitigate the danger, consciously or not.

 

Proof by assertion doesn't work.

 

All of the folks I climb with do things to mitigate the danger. But it cannot be eliminated.

 

Are you saying that live should be lead only without risk?

[olyclimber]

is that your assertion? that assertions don't work?

[Cobra_Commander]

assuming a fleet of unmanned drones are flying in formation above at all times? no

[dan_forester]

2. Before climbing Mt. Hood, make sure quality stock photos of you are on file.

[mattp]

Climbing is much more dangerous than the other things you mention. It's suicide when you don't do things to mitigate the danger, consciously or not.

 

BobC, climbing is probably more dangerous than boating or hunting, but maybe not by all that much depending on the type of climbing or boating you do and what your hunting practices may be.

 

True, I've had some friends killed climbing, but then again I've known folks who died in boating accidents and, while I have not had a friend die in a hunting accident, I used to read about hunters getting killed in hunting accidents every year when I grew up in Michigan. As far as the search and rescue costs foisted upon society, I bet the costs associated with rescuing hunters and boaters is much greater than that associated with rescuing climbers.

 

For myself, I've been climbing over 35 years and I have never been involved in an accident worse than a sprained ankle or torn ACL. I climb snow, ice, rock, alpine, whatever... Am I a particularly safe climber? Maybe or maybe not. But I don't think climbing is really as dangerous as it is made out to be and I definitely don't believe it to be in the realm of bullfighting or race car driving.

[olyclimber]

no, i assert all we need is drones manning computers with internet connections to cc.com and media outlets. droning endlessly of course.

[Cobra_Commander]

note the jack boots which will be kicking your ass for releasing this photo from my awkward junior high days.

[Mr_Phil]

is that your assertion? that assertions don't work?

 

Oops, small typo there.

 

I meant 'asscertion', which short for 'Shoved up your ass.'

[gapertimmy]

PORKCHOP SANDWHICHES?

 

NW4xMgV21Sg

[dan_forester]

note the jack boots which will be kicking your ass for releasing this photo from my awkward junior high days.

 

you do look kind of sullen there; did the other adolescent supervillians pick on you?

[olyclimber]

STOP ALL THE DOWNLOADING!

[gapertimmy]

7oJ7oytb8H8

[Cobra_Commander]

The embedded youtube option opens up a whole new level of spray.

 

I always wanted the tauntaun where you just stand in its back like that to keep my legs warm.

[pink]

Well yes I do. I was originally responding to remarks about climbing the mountain anyway, regardless of what SAR was doing, and of course petty remarks about the US Military need to fired upon. Climbing is great, but it's risks must be managed. Many climbers see the whole thing as a suicide pact: do what they want when they want regardless of weather, SAR needs or other considerations.

 

 

bob c, all the climbers you know must be japanese or in the military, because i do not know climbers like this. i have taken many calculated risk but who hasn't. it's just as foolish to hop in a car and drive around. i suspect joining the military is fooloish in it self, especially these days being that death could be the outcome. why do people join the military? and are you a climber? please answer my questions before i chalk you up as a tool.

 

i suspect living in tornado alley in a trailer, or in the path of a hurricane could be considered an unmanaged risk. must be thrilling for those poeple, what a rush.

Edited December 19, 2006 by pink