"We are winning"

[Winter]

I'm guessing that there was a fairly significant disparity in their builds that would not have worked in Winter's favor had the interaction been something other than polite, so perhaps the point should be ceded to Fairweather.

 

Are you fucking kidding me? Old, tubby and slow is no match for small, weak and hyperactive. Plus my dad could kick his Dad's ass. And he's stupid.

[tvashtarkatena]

Oh god, not this again. Can't we go back to talking about man on dead-pig-on- the-side-of-the-road sex?

[BillA]

I'm guessing that there was a fairly significant disparity in their builds that would not have worked in Winter's favor had the interaction been something other than polite, so perhaps the point should be ceded to Fairweather.

 

Are you fucking kidding me? Old, tubby and slow is no match for small, weak and hyperactive. Plus my dad could kick his Dad's ass. And he's stupid.

 

I have to get in on spray more often, this is good shit. My guess is FW is your average fatty right-wing member of the 101st fighting keyboardists who can't see his ankles or climb 5.7. And I bet Chris could kick his ass, he's short and all, but still.

[Dechristo]

I vote for Chris

 

[chucK]

How do you think our troops over there would feel if they read your bullshit? This thread is a who's who of the cc.com self-hate-hate-america crowd.

 

I guess you won't have to worry about that.

soldiers in Iraq blocked from reading left-wing websites

 

I wonder how our troops feel about only being able to read right-wing blogs?

[tvashtarkatena]

I love America. Bread's OK, too.

[Dechristo]

I wonder how our troops feel about only being able to read right-wing blogs?

 

From a few blocked sites to all left-wing? Kind of a big jump, ain't it?

 

I'm for freedom of info and anti-censorship, but you must remember, people become government property literally when they sign-up.

[tvashtarkatena]

These folks are in a war zone. I don't think cc.com threads are the first thing they think about when they get up in the morning.

[cj001f]

These folks are in a war zone. I don't think cc.com threads are the first thing they think about when they get up in the morning.

 

We've never had anyone log in to cc.com from Iraq. Ever. Never Ever.

[Dechristo]

it's been pretty cool when they have

[tvashtarkatena]

I know one guy who's over there. Not a climber, but then we're not exactly discussing the finer points of crampons here. Anybody else?

[Fairweather]

How do I think our troops would feel if they read my bullshit? Well honestly I'm a bit conflicted there. One the one hand I realize all too clearly that many of the folks over there are in a lot of trouble not of their own making. Poverty, ignorance, and general lack of healthy opportunities for a dignified and honorable existence have trapped these people in an absolutely horrifying position. Maybe if they read my and other's bullshit before they enlisted perhaps they may have made other choices. On the other hand, I gave up the support-the-troops-guilt-trip long ago. It's when I realized that many of "our" troops over there really do enjoy killing, maiming, and torturing other human beings that I gave up on that one. Can't wait for those guys and gals to get home!

 

Arrogance. I'm sure our troops would love to read such a succinct example of your unbridled contempt. The poverty and ignorance cards you and yours regularly deal are particularly galling.

[Crux]

I wonder how our troops feel about only being able to read right-wing blogs?

 

From a few blocked sites to all left-wing? Kind of a big jump, ain't it?

 

I'm for freedom of info and anti-censorship, but you must remember, people become government property literally when they sign-up.

Freedom On the March

 

Actually, the report proceded from the general case and went to a few specific examples that present compelling evidence. The Marine Corporal, writing from Iraq, stated the following:

 

"I am currently stationed in Al Taqaddam, Iraq with the Marines…you’ve done a short piece about this before, but this is getting ridiculous.

 

It seems that every non-conservative politics website has been blocked by our firewall guys…including your site. The reason it is blocked is because it is a “personal page.” Which means they don’t have a reason to block it … but they want to block it, so they do. This was done recently, just in time for mid-term elections. As I said, it was not only your website, I have gone through lists of liberal sites and most of them are blocked. I’ve also taken the time to go to some conservative sites….none of which are blocked.

 

I don’t have the words to describe how I feel. They have sent me to this desert three times…each time saying that we are defending freedom…which is BS and everyone knows it. And on top of that they have taken away many of the freedoms that we are supposedly fighting for….

 

I don’t think there is much anyone can do about this, but I just wanted you to know that this was still going on."

[Dechristo]

I guess he forgets, for the time being, he is not his own man but the government's.

 

 

Also, yo, Prole,

...our troops...Poverty, ignorance, and general lack of healthy opportunities for a dignified and honorable existence have trapped these people in an absolutely horrifying position.

 

A "dignified and honorable existence" is independent of and not subject to the whims of definition by others.

[tvashtarkatena]

Several assumptions have been made here.

 

The most common one is that nearly everyone who enters the military does so to escape poverty. The demographics of today's military don't support this, nor does the journalistic record. Some do join the military to get out of poverty, of course, but there are many other reasons people join. To serve their country, for starters. To challenge themselves. To do something significant in their lives. To straighten their act out. Because they like guns. To continue a family tradition. Because their friends did. Many reasons.

 

The second assumption is that, without access to certain blogs, military personnel will not be able to come to their own balanced conclusions; the 'brainwashed' theory. It's nothing more than a form of condescension. I can assure you from personal experience that folks in the military are as or more critical in their thinking (after all, their living at the sharp edge of political policy) as the shopping focused population as a whole. As a cross section of our society, they have the same diversity of political views.

 

Finally, the journalistic value of blogs is vastly overrated. The forums they provide do provide a form of online democratic discourse (but then again, so does talk radio), but they are invariably biased and, as a result, their stories highly filtered and not vigorously vetted. I have many friends who'll skewer FOX news (which deserves it), then email me an editorial from some obscure blog. Blogs are recreation, not news sources. If the censorship described here is actually happening, I doubt that it's significantly hampering our troops ability draw their own conclusions.

 

I agree that this administration has put our military in a terrible situation. Rather than spending time kvetching about why some corporal can't log into Wonkette, why not log into the websites of various military units, which provide some remarkably frank, first hand reports of what is actually happening over there? After all, there are 130,000 voters over there...and over 200 million voters here. Which group needs to be better informed?

[TREETOAD]

I wonder how many young American men and women have taken leave from well paying jobs to go into the military?

[mattp]

Nice post, Tvash, but I think you'd have to agree there certainly IS a lot of brainwashing involved in the operation of our military so that, for example, I remember reading as recently as about two years ago (or maybe more recently) that an astoundingly high percentage of American military personnel in Iraq believed that Saddam had attacked us on 911. Of course, I have also read that 43% of American citizens believe the same thing as recently as September of this year and our illustrious President, as recently as his 2006 State of the Union Speech, deliberately hinted the same thing without actually saying it.

[lI1|1!]

i was in the army from 94 to 97 and was amazed at how much conservative brainwashing went on. on the other hand it's pretty much the same stuff you'll get from watching FOXnews and then actually believing it. i took it with a grain of salt and thought it relatively mild to compared to all the other BS you have to put up with in the military. it wasn't a complete filter either, if you hunted around you could find the nytimes for sale (mainstream but obviously liberal). most of the people in the army are stupid and they just love getting spoonfed conservative crap so they don't have to think for themselves. it's easy to point fingers at examples of brainwashing but ultimately people believe what they want to believe.

[prole]

How do I think our troops would feel if they read my bullshit? Well honestly I'm a bit conflicted there. One the one hand I realize all too clearly that many of the folks over there are in a lot of trouble not of their own making. Poverty, ignorance, and general lack of healthy opportunities for a dignified and honorable existence have trapped these people in an absolutely horrifying position. Maybe if they read my and other's bullshit before they enlisted perhaps they may have made other choices. On the other hand, I gave up the support-the-troops-guilt-trip long ago. It's when I realized that many of "our" troops over there really do enjoy killing, maiming, and torturing other human beings that I gave up on that one. Can't wait for those guys and gals to get home!

 

Arrogance. I'm sure our troops would love to read such a succinct example of your unbridled contempt. The poverty and ignorance cards you and yours regularly deal are particularly galling.

 

The "support the troops" rallying cry and disciplinary cudgel is the epitome of patronizing contempt for soldiers and their families. It's founded on the notion that those in combat have to know that they are fighting for a just cause, that they and their buddies are not dying in vain, that their sacrifices have been worth it. Can anyone in their right mind say that the catastrophe, chaos, and hell that is the US invasion and occpation of Iraq has been worth it? If the answer is no, then continuing support for this war, staying the course and feeding troops an obvious line of bullshit means you don't support the troops at all, you support their use as cannon-fodder in an illegal war waged for illegitimate ends that the current administration has all but admitted is unwinnable. If you really wanted to support the troops, and here I mean the actual human beings under the uniforms and not the institutions of the armed forces, then you'd be doing your best to get them the fuck out of there. This includes making information that is verboten or unavailable to them available, encouraging organized refusal. The paternalistic "support the troops" rhetoric has extended the shelf life of "Operation Clusterfuck" and therefore put more US troops through the meatgrinder.

 

History has focused primarily on the antiwar movement within the US as a main motor for ending the war in Vietnam. Not suprisingly, the highly effective anti-war movement within the armed forces itself has been largely ignored. Resistance to and refusal of direct orders, going AWOL, etc. in an organized manner was instrumental in ending that horrorshow. These people were no more traitorous than were runaway slaves! The internalization of the idea that human beings could become the property of others, plantation owner or military is fundamentally wrong, downright fucking barbaric. Any notion of really supporting the troops must first dispel this sick, inhumane, and immoral idea.

 

 

Check out the new film "Sir, No Sir": http://www.netflix.com/MovieDisplay?movieid=70043764&trkid=189530&strkid=268177404_0_0

[tvashtarkatena]

I wonder how many young American men and women have taken leave from well paying jobs to go into the military?

Quite a few. They're called the National Guard.

[tvashtarkatena]

Nice post, Tvash, but I think you'd have to agree there certainly IS a lot of brainwashing involved in the operation of our military so that, for example, I remember reading as recently as about two years ago (or maybe more recently) that an astoundingly high percentage of American military personnel in Iraq believed that Saddam had attacked us on 911. Of course, I have also read that 43% of American citizens believe the same thing as recently as September of this year and our illustrious President, as recently as his 2006 State of the Union Speech, deliberately hinted the same thing without actually saying it.

I think you're referring to same propoganda all of us choose to either believe or ignore rather than brainwashing. You're right, an astounding high number of Americans, not just military personnel, believe what isn't true. Not a pretty picture, but not limited to the military, either.

 

As for the "Support the Troops" stickers, they represent the ultimate Do Nothing gesture; a trademark of modern, professional warfare. They turn my stomach. Their numbers are dwindling in step with the conviction of their owners.

[Fairweather]

How do I think our troops would feel if they read my bullshit? Well honestly I'm a bit conflicted there. One the one hand I realize all too clearly that many of the folks over there are in a lot of trouble not of their own making. Poverty, ignorance, and general lack of healthy opportunities for a dignified and honorable existence have trapped these people in an absolutely horrifying position. Maybe if they read my and other's bullshit before they enlisted perhaps they may have made other choices. On the other hand, I gave up the support-the-troops-guilt-trip long ago. It's when I realized that many of "our" troops over there really do enjoy killing, maiming, and torturing other human beings that I gave up on that one. Can't wait for those guys and gals to get home!

 

Arrogance. I'm sure our troops would love to read such a succinct example of your unbridled contempt. The poverty and ignorance cards you and yours regularly deal are particularly galling.

 

The "support the troops" rallying cry and disciplinary cudgel is the epitome of patronizing contempt for soldiers and their families. It's founded on the notion that those in combat have to know that they are fighting for a just cause, that they and their buddies are not dying in vain, that their sacrifices have been worth it. Can anyone in their right mind say that the catastrophe, chaos, and hell that is the US invasion and occpation of Iraq has been worth it? If the answer is no, then continuing support for this war, staying the course and feeding troops an obvious line of bullshit means you don't support the troops at all, you support their use as cannon-fodder in an illegal war waged for illegitimate ends that the current administration has all but admitted is unwinnable. If you really wanted to support the troops, and here I mean the actual human beings under the uniforms and not the institutions of the armed forces, then you'd be doing your best to get them the fuck out of there. This includes making information that is verboten or unavailable to them available, encouraging organized refusal. The paternalistic "support the troops" rhetoric has extended the shelf life of "Operation Clusterfuck" and therefore put more US troops through the meatgrinder.

 

History has focused primarily on the antiwar movement within the US as a main motor for ending the war in Vietnam. Not suprisingly, the highly effective anti-war movement within the armed forces itself has been largely ignored. Resistance to and refusal of direct orders, going AWOL, etc. in an organized manner was instrumental in ending that horrorshow. These people were no more traitorous than were runaway slaves! The internalization of the idea that human beings could become the property of others, plantation owner or military is fundamentally wrong, downright fucking barbaric. Any notion of really supporting the troops must first dispel this sick, inhumane, and immoral idea.

 

 

Check out the new film "Sir, No Sir": http://www.netflix.com/MovieDisplay?movieid=70043764&trkid=189530&strkid=268177404_0_0

 

A nicely convoluted response to your indefensible statement. On one hand you're basically calling our soldiers uneducated killers and torturers and sarcastically proclaiming that you can't wait for their safe return, and now you're saying " 'hooray for our troops', but I wish they would mutiny to validate my political beliefs". Just great, man.

 

You're a real shit bag Prole/j_b. I always knew Bellingham was full of defectives. Here's some advice: Your 7 years at WWU ended a while ago - why not move out into the real world and spread the word? I suspect you'll find people's views beyond that 5 mile campus radius are more diverse than you realize.

[Fairweather]

Prole = John Kerrey?

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15499174/

 

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

 

Arrogance of the left on display - again.

[prole]

He was talking about Bush, you pathetic cretin.

[Fairweather]

Nice try, punk. He was talking to a group of kids about the value of education. And he was talking contemptuously about American soldiers - just like you do.