JayB Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 I think that the religious beliefs that someone espouses have quite a bit more to do with the moral and intellectual qualities that they bring to the religion than their chosen religion influences their moral and intellectual outlook. Kind, thoughtful people tend to embrace religious perspectives that emphasize these qualities. People who are hateful, fearful, superstitious, vengeful, etc will tend to embrace and espouse religious viewpoints that reflect these aspects of their personalities. I have never been religious myself, but as I said before, most of the people that I'm close to have a low-key but deeply held religious faith of some sort. I could never share my grandmother's religious beliefs, but it was easy for me to see that her sincere belief that she'd be reunited with my Grandfather in heaven some day helped her make it through the grief that followed his death, and provided her with a source of hope and solace and comfort in the many years that followed. When she herself was dying, even though I harbored no illusions about ever seeing her again, knowing that she sincerely believed that she'd be reuinited with my grandfather and all of her loved ones that had passed on before her made the process of watching her die much easier for me to bear. For me religion is a lot like fire or a stone or anything else in the world that can be used for constructive or destructive purposes, for good or evil, depending upon the character and morals of the person who posesses it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 "Want some Kool-aid?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindawg Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Childish? Yeah shure, like thier tactics are any better. Just look at Rove. Childish is childish...how do YOU choose to respond? In a like manner? Or something a little more thoughtful and sophisticated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 For me, the amazing thing is the existence of all things. It is, if such a thing exists, the Grand Unified Theory. If such and explanation can be found, then how could one not call it the face of God. The funny thing is that such a theory will most likely be understood by only those capable of the higher math that proves it. It will be no unlike another religion, where the knowledgeable priests pass know the Truth that they know. I'll still call myself an agnostic, because I don't think humans are capable (at least at in this stage of our evolution) of truly seeing the whole face of God. Even if the brightest minds find a Unified Theory, how will we know that this applies to the infinite? In its very nature, the infinite is God, and all we know is the only proof we will ever have of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 For me, the amazing thing is the existence of all things. It is, if such a thing exists, the Grand Unified Theory. If such and explanation can be found, then how could one not call it the face of God. The funny thing is that such a theory will most likely be understood by only those capable of the higher math that proves it. It will be no unlike another religion, where the knowledgeable priests pass know the Truth that they know. I'll still call myself an agnostic, because I don't think humans are capable (at least at in this stage of our evolution) of truly seeing the whole face of God. Even if the brightest minds find a Unified Theory, how will we know that this applies to the infinite? In its very nature, the infinite is God, and all we know is the only proof we will ever have of it. One irony in your premise is that these 'brighter minds...capable of understanding the higher math...' will most likely lack the social skills necessary to convey their unifying thesis - such is often the mind of the intellectual. Aka 'geeks'. They will rely on messengers and translators - with no adgenda of their own of course - to bring the grand message to the lay-masses. Cretainly a religion based on science will require the strictest adherance. I suspect those who do not subscribe might even be considered 'dangerous'. But I mostly agree with you, Oly. Seems to me that sentient life is what it is. The natural order of things in this universe over time - the universe bringing awareness to itself through a concoction of compounds and ordered sequences that become naturally more complex. That said, I still find it impossible to imagine the dust at the end of time is void of a consciousness that remembers we were all once here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skykilo Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 There is a vast difference between knowing the mathematics required to use a theory and actually understanding the physical picture those mathematics represent. There's also a well-established spoiler from the philosophy of science: for any finite number of observations, there is an infinite number of equally suitable explanations. It's hard to just accept our limitations though, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 There is a vast difference between knowing the mathematics required to use a theory and actually understanding the physical picture those mathematics represent. There's also a well-established spoiler from the philosophy of science: for any finite number of observations, there is an infinite number of equally suitable explanations. It's hard to just accept our limitations though, isn't it? Pffft. Like you know anything about physics.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Hah, I was wondering if he knew anything about limitations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mos_Chillin Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 It's all about the free shit anyway, and you dirtbags know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehead Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 For me, the amazing thing is the existence of all things. It is, if such a thing exists, the Grand Unified Theory. If such and explanation can be found, then how could one not call it the face of God. The funny thing is that such a theory will most likely be understood by only those capable of the higher math that proves it. It will be no unlike another religion, where the knowledgeable priests pass know the Truth that they know. I'll still call myself an agnostic, because I don't think humans are capable (at least at in this stage of our evolution) of truly seeing the whole face of God. Even if the brightest minds find a Unified Theory, how will we know that this applies to the infinite? In its very nature, the infinite is God, and all we know is the only proof we will ever have of it. Know what this is a picture of? “We know that under the revealed image there is another one which is more faithful to reality, and under this one there is yet another, and again another under this last one, down to the true image of what absolute, mysterious reality that nobody will ever see. Or perhaps, not until the decomposition of every image, every reality.” —Michelangelo Antonioni Imitation (i.e., stealin') is the sincerest form of flattery. I was gonna speak of transcedence, scientitific reductionism, epiphenomenon, the limits of cognition and Ultimate Truth, the ego, exclusivity and the idea of a personal God but I don't have any idea of what I'm talking about. So, it's really about perception and akin to what Picasso said, "Art is a lie that makes us realize truth." My perception or 'take' on the world incomplete as it is, is all that I'll have. The label or name is not the same as the thing-in-itself, if it were I could get sustenance by going to a restaurant and eating the menu. Naming something is not the same as actually possessing something or grasping complete knowledge of something. Some people take the route of describing something by saying what it is not. But really, why multiple the names of something, if God is the Universe? If God is ineffable, transcedent then we are actually talking about the Godhead, the divine nature or essence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehead Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 When it comes to religion I've found that I care less and less what people say they believe and more and more about how they act, as the latter is a way better reflection of what their true motives are and what they actually believe. To me, one does not take precedence over the other, if their words and actions are informed by their motivation. If their motivation is to convert non-believers into believers then it doesn't matter if it's called proselytizing or evangelism. Some people would consider capitalism to be quasi-religious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHarry Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 So go ahead and spray me if you want, just as long as you continue to read my TRs. I'm getting of tired of clicking my own TR links to get the count up to a respectible level - Please note Vesper Peak - North Face....I'd like to hit at least 800 on this one, and my mouse hand is getting tired. the real question here, is why would you post a TR for Vesper Peak? It probably takes more energy to play 9 rounds of golf than climb that thing. Most people solo it in their sneakers on a lazy afternoon. And you wonder why nobody looks at your TR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 DH...first I'm not a golfer As for why I posted a TR, I noticed that while perhaps many of you studs climb in your sneakers, few provide much beta about the route. Being relatively new to leading, I thought I'd give a little useful beta for others in this community for whom this is a more difficult climb than you. Notice I didn't post any time benchmarks because I wasn't chest-beating about how fast I did it. In fact, we took it pretty slow and enjoyed it. The question to you is, after all you read in this thread, why is it that the only thing you could come up with is a jab at my climbing prowess? With a tag line like sponsored by Satan, surely you can do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray spray v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHarry Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 How many people are reading this post? Yay! I'm on the internets!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 How many people are reading this post? Yay! I'm on the internets!! haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r haX0r Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5274040.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mos_Chillin Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 No dvd's yet. I expect next day shipping for my generous donation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Good to see you've moved on from picking on someone's grandfather in Anacortes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHarry Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Yeah now he's picking on those completely impoverished and underrepresented Focus on the Family people. Bully! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 No one ever called them impoverished and underrepresented, so your sarcasm seems to be misplaced - why are you so angry??? Do you really live in Peshastin???....is that why you are so angry???....are you currently unemployed???....is that why you have so much time to troll this site??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHarry Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Do you really live in Peshastin???....is that why you are so angry??? I was actually going to ask you the same thing about Issaquah. So which one of the four approved colors is your cookie-cutter development home / condominium, BTW ? And you're right Peshastin sucks, don't ever come over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Dude...you can attack my Townhouse all you want, but I haven't spent a weekend doing yardwork for 2.5 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Dude...you can attack my Townhouse all you want, but I haven't spent a weekend doing yardwork for 2.5 years Do those townhomes come standard with middle class values, or is some assembly required? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Dude...you can attack my Townhouse all you want, but I haven't spent a weekend doing yardwork for 2.5 years Do those townhomes come standard with middle class values, or is some assembly required? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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