Access Issues on National Park Land

[rabbitwaters]

I just moved here from Kentucky and I'd like to know more about what it's like to climb in the North Cascades Park Complex. I'm doing a research project about access issues for climbers, so I'd be glad to hear any information you'd like to share!

 

I'm specifically interested in the following:

What are the biggest issues for climbers in the park?

How have they changed since you began climbing there?

How is climbing in the Cascades different than climbing in other places in North America?

How would you describe your climbing style and climbing ethic?

What are the different kinds of climbers in the Cascades?

What can you tell me about bolting in the park?

 

Thanks for posting!

[DirtyHarry]

What are the biggest issues for climbers in the park?

 

Either slider alder or devil's club. Its a toss up.

[RideT61]

What are the biggest issues for climbers in the park?

Getting permits.

How have they changed since you began climbing there?

More people

How is climbing in the Cascades different than climbing in other places in North America?

Lots of long hard approaches with huge relief compared to most of the lower 48.

How have they changed since you began climbing there? getting more crowded

How would you describe your climbing style and climbing ethic?

Alpine flailing, limited use of pins in the alpine are ok, but no bolts.

What are the different kinds of climbers in the Cascades?

Diverse, look at the trip reports posted here.

What can you tell me about bolting in the park? I don't know of much if any.

Edited August 1, 2006 by RideT61

[Weekend_Climberz]

What are the different kinds of climbers in the Cascades?

Gapers, Wankerz, Mounties, and Hardmen.

 

What can you tell me about bolting in the park?

Hilti's are a lot faster than Bosch's, but either way hand drilling pretty much sucks.

[rabbitwaters]

What are the biggest issues for climbers in the park?

Getting permits.

How have they changed since you began climbing there?

More people

 

When did you start climbing in the Cascades? Has getting permits become an issue because there are more people, or has it always been a problem?

[rabbitwaters]

What are the different kinds of climbers in the Cascades?

Gapers, Wankerz, Mounties, and Hardmen.

Could you define each of these?

 

What can you tell me about bolting in the park?

Hilti's are a lot faster than Bosch's, but either way hand drilling pretty much sucks.

Can you give me some examples of drilling that you know of within the Cascades?

[John Frieh]

Carolyn: is this for your own personal interest or are you doing research for something? Will your findings be communicated to any governmental body (FS, BLM, etc)?

 

The more laws you make the more criminals you make.

[slothrop]

I heard someone named Becky drilled a bolt in the mountains around here. But that was a long time ago, I'm sure she's dead now.

[DirtyHarry]

Can you give me some examples of drilling that you know of within the Cascades?

 

Whenever Polish Bob catches a mountain goat

[rabbitwaters]

Carolyn: is this for your own personal interest or are you doing research for something? Will your findings be communicated to any governmental body (FS, BLM, etc)?

 

The more laws you make the more criminals you make.

 

Good question, thanks for asking. I am only going to use this information as part of a research paper for my class. I am working toward a Master's of Environmental Education. If I ever end up communicating this information to anyone besides my class, it will only be in the interest of creating a better understanding between climbers and forest service personnel. I am a climber too, so I certainly don't want to see any unncessary regulations come about as a result of my project!

[jonah]

Send me a pm with your email address. I work on some access issues.

[Choada_Boy]

Permits? What are those?

 

I did make my own "NW Forest Park Pass / Golden Eagle Pass" combo pass with a a Sharpie on the back of an old Red Lion Bellevue Inn parking pass, gets me in everywhere. I did get a ticket at a state park, though, and the Ranger wrote that my pass was not valid at WA state parks. Go figure!!

[DirtyHarry]

I wonder how many times rangers in norther Idaho see homemade parking permits stating that the vehicle owner has direct authority from God or the Constitution or something to park wherever the FUCK they want.

[rabbitwaters]

Permits? What are those?

 

I did make my own "NW Forest Park Pass / Golden Eagle Pass" combo pass with a a Sharpie on the back of an old Red Lion Bellevue Inn parking pass, gets me in everywhere. I did get a ticket at a state park, though, and the Ranger wrote that my pass was not valid at WA state parks. Go figure!!

 

Have you had problems getting backcountry permits within the National Park?

[Choada_Boy]

Permits? What are those?

 

I did make my own "NW Forest Park Pass / Golden Eagle Pass" combo pass with a a Sharpie on the back of an old Red Lion Bellevue Inn parking pass, gets me in everywhere. I did get a ticket at a state park, though, and the Ranger wrote that my pass was not valid at WA state parks. Go figure!!

 

Have you had problems getting backcountry permits within the National Park?

 

I only go "Guerilla Climbing". Should I get permission to take a dump? Can I breathe now?

[DirtyHarry]

You got a permit for that ugly mullet, hippy?

[rabbitwaters]

I only go "Guerilla Climbing". Should I get permission to take a dump? Can I breathe now?

 

What kinds of things do you usually climb - alpine, sport, etc.? How long have you been climbing?

[Choada_Boy]

You got a permit for that ugly mullet, hippy?

 

Hippies can't stand Death Metal.

[catbirdseat]

Rabbit, you should understand when we talk about permits we are talking about camping permits. To my knowledge there is no restriction on day use. Most camping permits are only required in certain heavily visited places, such as Boston Basin, Mt. Triumph, Eldorado, Cacade Pass area, etc.

 

A lot of climbers have been doing traditionally multiday climbs as one day pushes to avoid the hassles involved in getting permits.

[DirtyHarry]

A lot of climbers have been doing traditionally multiday climbs as one day pushes to avoid the hassles involved in getting permits.

 

That's horseshit. Its not like permit requirements are ever effectively enforced. One day pushes are just so you can get back to the pub quicker.

[Choada_Boy]

A lot of climbers have been doing traditionally multiday climbs as one day pushes to avoid the hassles involved in getting permits.

 

More like: "Because that's the ultimate style." or "Because that's the way that hurts the most." or "I'M WICKED COOL!"

[olyclimber]

or even better if you do a multiday trip but don't sleep or even stop. that is the best way to do the Tooth.

[Rad]

Here's a problem: parking permits for long day trips.

 

Example: Climbers plan to climb Backbone ridge on Dragontail in a long day. They park their car at Mountaineer Creek trailhead and start down the trail at 4:30am. The ranger cruises the lot at 6am looking for cars of illegal/permitless campers, finds the climber car with no overnight permit, and issues a ticket for $200.

 

$200!

 

The climbers return to their car at 7pm after a long day only to find this ticket. Because the ticket is handled by federal district court it is nearly impossible to contest, and not paying it is a federal crime. Of course the climbers never camped in the area as they were moving all day.

 

THIS is a problem that needs to be addressed.

[Weekend_Climberz]

There's really only been one case that I know of where bolting in the wilderness was a problem. It resulted, as far as I know, by a lack of communication and poor mapping by the Forest Service. Most climbers are not willing to risk a backlash of their fellow climbers by using power drills in the wilderness. Now, hand drilling is allowed but considered bad form without prior Ranger notification. There is drilling going on in various places around the Cascades, including but not limited to Exit 32 and Exit 38 near North Bend, Darrington, Index and replacement bolts are routinely placed at WA Pass for more obscure routes.

 

Rad's point is very real and it seems that the most frequent place for this to happen is in the Leavenworth area where there seems to be a movement towards strict enforcement by some of the Rangers there. I was ticketed in the Enchantments (purely my fault), but given the circumstances at the time I felt it was unnecessary and completely unjustified. I consider my fine of $200 my 10 year contribution to the NW Forest Pass system. I consider paying for the use of my National Parks, Wildernesses, and Forest Lands double taxation, and I think everyone remembers what happen in 1776 when the British tried that.

 

I've studied the NW Forest Pass system in the past and the numbers do not justify the price considering the costs of enforcement and administration of the system. If a less income prevalent couple with children would like to go out and have a nice weekend in the woods, their decision is now affected by the price of permits and parking. That is wrong and completly contrary to the vision of freedom that America stands for. I now do a lot of climbing in Canada, if only because $5 there is less than $5 in America and at least I feel I'm getting something for my money (toilets, hut access, etc.)

[DirtyHarry]

Ranger can't ticket someone's CAR for not having an overnight permit, they have to ticket the person. There's no way to know if someone is parked at Mtneer's TH if you are even camping in the permit zone or not.

 

I hope this hasn't actually happened to you or anyone you know. I've never heard of this happening.

 

and you can contest these tickets through the AG's in Yakima. I've talked to them on the phone before and they're pretty cool.