guide books on the internet

[DonnyBaker]

You know man you learn something new everyday. I was looking up this website . Man they got free guidebooks swear to god they do. Their are hardly any from northwest though. Some of you guy's should put your freakin route info on that site man. Besides I was at the libary yesterday and they don't even have any freakin guidebooks. drtopo.com

[BachelorTravis]

I'll trade you my Inland Northwest Rockclimbs for a pair of brass knuckles

[billcoe]

[Normanjohnson]

Donny - what you are advocating is piracy. Everytime a guidebook is put up on the internent, for free, it deprives the local guidebook author of the income they make - from the work they did. For instance, when Marty Bland and Rick Labelle put out their guidebooks, countless hours were put into research and writing - as well as publishing costs - which the author should br entitled to recoup by book sales.

When an individual (thief) takes the information from the book and lists it on a website, it is nothing short of theivery. Especially when that individual (thief) recieves some reward, such as gear, from the website - like they do at drtopo.com.

If you can afford a boat, I saw it was for sale, and a dirtbike, you can dish out the digits for the guide.

So, first and foremost: buy local guides! They're typically written by local climbers who are pasionate about the area and when all things are considered, usually are lucky to recoup their investement.

Second, I suspect your research skills could use a little refreshing. Unless you're lying, the local library has some of the guides on their shelves.

Third, when you go back to the library, do another trip report.

[shanichols]

Hey donny, I see you are from spokane. Why don't you put together a guide of the spokane areas like dishman and minnihaha and send it to dr. topo. that way out of towners like me can get it for free when we road trip there. I think they give you free gear if you submit something. from what i've read on these boards i don't think i really want to support marty bland so i would perfer to get it off of drtopo.

[billcoe]

I forsee a need for those brass knuckles sooner than anticipated.

[ZONK]

If Washington is not listed, Will they still come ?

My hope is that they wont. Why share ?

[shanichols]

I thought hippies were into the whole sharing/commune thing. Anyway WA is already listed and the only spokane area is deep creek and that is some of the chossiest climbing ever.

[ZONK]

did the cummune thing. Let them climb in Spokaloo thats fine never found anything over there worth doing.

[bwrts]

The Dr topo team writes their own topos after they (typically) visit the crag or bouldering venue. Met them once in Lander area....cool cats just getting shit done and writing down the info for easy access. Probably won't visit Wa unless more local chumps talk it up enuff and get more press coverage to where people hear about this dirty mossy otherwise shitty Cascade Mt area I love to hate...

cheers!

[mattp]

I disagree with Norman to the extent that I don't think DRTopo looks like pirated material (though of course it could simply have been copied from existing material and I wouldn't know).

 

It is also my guess that the availability of free Internet topo's like those on that site and for that matter my own site are just as likely to INCREASE interest in and sales of the latest area guidebooks as they are to cut into sales. This is certainly true for me: I often purchase local area guidebooks even if some or even a substantial amount of the routes are depicted elsewhere. I believe it is true for others, as well: in the case of Index, for example, I bet the author will tell you that the free topo's available on the Internet have not cut into his sales even though at least 75% of the routes he depicts are covered in the net version. And my guess is that a measureable percentage of the sales of the Darrington CD guide produced by David Whitelaw have come from inquiries generated from my own site depicting the same area and my site may even be a major contributor to his sales.

 

There are some who may say to themselves: why buy the guidebook when I can download and print for free. There are as many or more that want more information once they learn about an area, and there are a whole bunch of people who would simply rather have a guidebook than a stack of printer output.

[Marty]

This is an interesting post. I see young Donny is once again experimenting with piracy. This time it's different Donny. This time your not navigating the seat, (yes seat) of Fletcher, as the dreaded seaman, "Nutbeard the Butt Pirate", this time you're messing with me and how I feed my family. Donny, if you start posting copyrighted info on the internet, you're going to need more than brass knuckles when I get a hold of your scraggly little, balding, mullet, ass. Be afraid Donny. Be very afraid. Maybe next time your and Fellatio, I mean Fletcher, are out at Dishman trying the impossible Dyno, check that bolt you're all jumping around on, OK? Is it really a bolt or just a nut and hanger glued to the wall? I'll get you Donny, I really will.

[Marty]

Dude, how can you not want to support Marty Bland? I'm out here fighting for what's right in the world. People like you make me sad shanichols. Peace to your mother, and if she's dead like that one quy that I posted that to, I apologize in advance.

P.S. Buy my guidebook. Read it and it will:

1. Increase your redpointing up to 1 whole number grade- 5.10-5.11 and so on.

2. Teach you to gain the techniques required to land that special promotion at work.

3. Teach you how to win friends and influence people, who you need to succesfully take over the world with.

4. Give you longer and stronger erections.

5. Take hair from those unwanted areas, and transfer it to the areas that you were thinking that "hair should grow here".

6. Not only soothe the body, but soothe the mind in ways only known to 33rd degree, zen ninja's. Essentially, after reading Inland Northwest Rockclimbs, by Marty Bland, you will pretty much have the ability to, at will, dematerialize into a Ricky Martin "type" state of existence.

It's a powerful book. Handle with care, and grace be with you on the astral plane of menudo.

[RuMR]

plus, Marty's an allaround good guy and built like a bricklayer, so you don't wanaafuck wid 'im!!

 

[olyclimber]

Good stuff guys.

[Off_White]

Marty, if you're trying to feed your family on the income from an eastern washington guidebook then I figure you folks could give the Biafrans some serious competition.

[crackers]

I disagree with Norman to the extent that I don't think DRTopo looks like pirated material (though of course it could simply have been copied from existing material and I wouldn't know).

 

I just looked at the topo for Wild Iris. It was weird: on one hand it says 'copyright drtopo' and on the other hand they say 'source: paul piana wild iris'...

 

huh? Is it an authorized reprint of piana's book or what?

[dr_agon]

MY GOD! Sehome Hill is now going to be revealed as the bouldering mecca it really is. Shame on you, Donny, for revealing the best-kept secret North of Bishop.

[mattp]

Fred Beckey has been quoted as saying "writing a guidebook is like having kids: there is no money in it."

[DonnyBaker]

Norman your crazy man, you pirated Mtn Dew out of my climbing bag right in front of my face. Hey you want to go to the library with me, we can do some research on nun-chucks.

[DonnyBaker]

Your gross Marty, menudo is that mexican soup. Man I swear to God I got a weak stomach. Rich Castro used to eat that stuff at work over at Les Schwab. He said it was good for hangovers, I was like man I can beat the hangover but I can't beat the smell.

 

[corvallisclimb]

Its really funny when you post to act like a complete red-neck moron. That one really hasnt gotten old. There is a time and a place...

[billcoe]

Its really funny when you post to act like a complete red-neck moron. That one really hasnt gotten old. There is a time and a place...

 

I don't think he's acting dude!

[corvallisclimb]

I don't think he's acting dude!

 

Oh shit

[Normanjohnson]

matt - i agree with you that a short guide/topo can inspire individuals to buy guidebooks - especially guidebooks for areas like Smith Rocks and the new Red River Gorge climbing guide b/c these are large areas and are written in a format that makes great reading while a person shits.

But in an area like Deep Creek, that sees little new traffic each year, any download hurts.(Assuming Marty has any feelings or is even cognizant when he looses something). Once again, it's the little guy who gets fucked. Imagine if Labelle's guide for Banks shows up on the internent. Banks is so small their wouldnt be any reason to buy the book, especially for a one time visit. People who collect guidebooks arent far off from Dinosaurs. The Donny Bakers are about to inherit the earth and they don't give a piss about anything - except maybe nunchuck, bow staffs, and brass knuckles.

Anyway-

My real problem is with the guy who submits the information to Drtopo. He is the thief. Drtopo did not come to deep creek. The information on their website was submitted by some dude (he is cited on the website) in pullman who obvioulsy took the names and grades out of Bland'd guide and then reformatted the topos. If you look at the grades, they are identical to the ones in the guidebook and do not reflect the consensus grades which have been established since the guide came out.

Finally, the insult to injury lies when Drtopo gives this dude(thief) free gear for submitting someone else's work.

It's probably legal - but it's slimy and it's a bummer.