another bolting ethics case

[ivan]

i like mixed routes - kinda like humping a nice, wholesome american-pie, chick-next-door kinda girl who also happens to have fake tits

 

you know, to break up the monotony?

[RuMR]

Dammit kevin, you missed your appointment...please reschedule...

[Peter_Puget]

I don't know Ivan. I once climbed a route that started woth a couple of bolts then a short runout to a couple hook moves. Then free again to a crack with a KB. After that came lower angle stuff to an easy well protected corner. A silicone free route.

 

I think you are primarily jerking off to Playboys in the bathroom rather than humping anything.

 

 

[ivan]

I don't know Ivan. I once climbed a route that started woth a couple of bolts then a short runout to a couple hook moves. Then free again to a crack with a KB. After that came lower angle stuff to an easy well protected corner. A silicone free route.

 

I think you are primarily jerking off to Playboys in the bathroom rather than humping anything.

 

i don't understand - you appear to have liked your route - does this mean you like mixed routes, or that you wouldn't describe your route as mixed?

 

an example of a mixed route i like - young warriors at beacon - 4 pitches - 2 mostly bolted, 2 more almost entirely on gear

[ivan]

I think you are primarily jerking off to Playboys in the bathroom rather than humping anything.

 

well, i gotta do something to relieve the inner tension while searching for my next rape-victim!

[Peter_Puget]

I'm just saying that there's nothing fake about mixed route or even bolted ones for that matter.

[ivan]

I'm just saying that there's nothing fake about mixed route or even bolted ones for that matter.

there's nothing fake about nailing katie morgan either!

[willstrickland]

Make up your mind Kevbone, one day you want everything to be safe and are complaining about "wasting the rock", the next day it's "climb at your own risk".

 

While you're on a point by point rebuttal kick, maybe address this one:

"Chances are, if you just changed the spacing/location of the bolts when establishing the 10 bolt+1 piece rig you could have it fully bolted without placing a bolt next to a crack/gear placement.

 

Are these routes that you're putting up with ten bolts and one piece of gear so desperate that there are only a few specific spots you could realistically stop and clip from and spacing the bolts differently would be impossible?

 

 

[kevbone]

Make up your mind Kevbone, one day you want everything to be safe and are complaining about "wasting the rock",

 

 

Where do you get that from? I do not think my view on “wasted rock” implies I want everything to be “safe”. There is a difference between spicy and unsafe. IMO. I have always respected spicy climbs. Poorly protected climbs that are unsafe to the point that no one gets on them and they get grown over area waste of rock.

 

While you're on a point by point rebuttal kick, maybe address this one:

"Chances are, if you just changed the spacing/location of the bolts when establishing the 10 bolt+1 piece rig you could have it fully bolted without placing a bolt next to a crack/gear placement.

 

That implies one would bolt it in a specific way and take the gear out of the climb. I did not view it that way. I bolted it “around” the gear placement. And it’s not that black and white. Every climb is different. This climb was bolted by clipping holds and possible ledges to hit and a bunch of different variables. What you are implying above might work at Smith were the wall is vertical with no ledges….but not at the zone.

 

 

 

[RuMR]

yer an idiot...

[kevbone]

yer an idiot...

 

That all you got? Thanks for the uplifting commentary.

[RuMR]

yer an idiot...

[kevbone]

Arent we all

[Chaps]

I did a quick survey of my buds out here in Minnesota, and we all agree: It's only you.

[Bug]

All bolts, all the time no matter what.

That is the definition of an idiot.

[kevbone]

I did a quick survey of my buds out here in Minnesota, and we all agree

 

Missesota has weed?

[RuMR]

goddam yer an idiot...

[pc313]

I did a quick survey of my buds out here in Minnesota, and we all agree: It's only you.

[billcoe]

 

 

Bone, this is an album cover. You should make it your sig line? ie, you've been BONED!

 

 

Sample song titles include:

"Drain the Main Vein," "Ain't No Talkin' With Your Mouth Full" and "Tails Up Heads Down"

[RuMR]

just checkin' back in to confirm my suspician that kevboned is still an idiot!

 

C O N F I R M E D!

[pc313]

It's not contagious is it!!

[RuMR]

hang around here long enough and you're bound to contract retardonoculosis...case in point, look at that dru-fuckstick...someone oughta shoot that poor sap and put us out of his misery...

[mattp]

Make up your mind Kevbone, one day you want everything to be safe and are complaining about "wasting the rock", the next day it's "climb at your own risk".

 

While you're on a point by point rebuttal kick, maybe address this one:

"Chances are, if you just changed the spacing/location of the bolts when establishing the 10 bolt+1 piece rig you could have it fully bolted without placing a bolt next to a crack/gear placement.

 

Are these routes that you're putting up with ten bolts and one piece of gear so desperate that there are only a few specific spots you could realistically stop and clip from and spacing the bolts differently would be impossible?

 

 

I don't know anything about the climb under discussion, Kevbone's "style," or much else that may be relevant to this discussion, but when reading this I do feel compelled to offer a comment: based on my past experiences when bolting pitches and trying to eliminate or minimize bolts, I believe that I have often made mistakes by focusing on a desire to minimize bolts above the more sensible goal to use the obvious or sensible placements. I realize that the quote I am responding to was not proposing "minimize bolt counts" but, rather, "move bolts around to make the trad pro unnecessary." I wonder, though: had Kevbone tried to engineer the pitch in order to make a .75 camelot unneeded he likely would have ended up with something that feels unnatural and may even be needlessly scary - unless he placed the bolt next to the crack. (He tell us that the crack is in just where you want the pro.)

 

If you are developing a pitch for repeat ascents, my choice is to do the best job you can. For a pitch that has ten bolts, I think bolting it so that it is easy to make the clips and so that they protect the difficult moves takes priority over eliminating the .75 camelot placement.

 

I don't necessarily agree with Rudy's maxim here: that a bolted pitch at a sport area should not require trad pro. I was not happy to see somebody add unnecessary bolts to "Son of Jesus" at Little Si because the gear was good. Ten years hence, I am resigned to the fact that this was done and I won't call for chopping those unneeded bolts but I wouldn't suggest that anybody developing a ten bolt plus one camelot pitch move things around to eliminate need for the camelot or else just bite the bullet and bolt the crack. It is OK to carry a .75 camelot on a sport rack.

 

At Ozone, it is probably OK that the guidebook says "bring ten draws and a .75 camelot to use between the 4th and 5th bolt." I agree with Will, though, that it is probably not ethically all that different to just go ahead and add the 11th bolt. But I, personally, probably wouldn't do it.

 

[kevbone]

 

 

This is the climb in question. This is our flyer for the fund raiser we just had. Pink chalk shown in the picture. Come on down and give it a go....see if you can onsight it Rudy....

[RuMR]

do i need some filed-down #3's??