RuMR Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Perhaps in these women's case being amongst the first women to do so presented them with special challenges that are worth recording, and somehow elevate their ascents to a significance beyond that endowed upon the dozens of male ascents - but I personally think that once the pioneering era has passed - which it has, IMO The age of pioneering is certainly not over! Consider: RuMR can be the first member of an all-gay, mentally-retarded team to summit K2. Then he can go on a lecture tour and make some cash as well! Hey...we are still lookin' for a team captain! It could be you as soon as you've figured out your "choice"...just don't consult w/ the RNC about proper "choices" or we'll miss out on your fine leadership skillz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Your choice of derision is interesting considering the utter ineptness of RuMR's puerile barbs. my kaskhole, you have such BIG words!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 I like the juxtaposition of "endowed" and "male ascents" in the double quote there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 He's just in touch with his feminine side. In fact I bet he's touching it right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 or he's getting something to eat... Mmmm this cake is so GOOD. It's like sex except I'm having it. hey...i'm married! Its not my fault!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griz Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Consider: RuMR can be the first member of an mentally-retarded team to summit K2. Luckily for him, he won't have look any further than most of the posters on this site to fill out his team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 What better time to write a book sensationalizing an event than after all that were involved are dead. Perhaps she wont feel so bad about profiting from her book/tour if she doesnt have any participants to call her out on being the gold-brickin slut she is? As a side note, I have a resume prepared if there are any slots left on RuMRs team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrest_m Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 (reposted from the other thread) jayB wrote: Perhaps in these women's case being amongst the first women to do so presented them with special challenges that are worth recording, and somehow elevate their ascents to a significance beyond that endowed upon the dozens of male ascents thank you, that is exactly my point. the story of them being the first women in this instance is interesting because in addition to the mountaineering story, there is also the issue of overcoming prejudice and stereotypes. though i have not read the book, i can certainly imagine that this COULD make an interesting story. in the hands of a hack, it could be patronizing and it might make me want to puke, but it could also be inspiring. i certainly don't know one way or the other. what pisses me off is the blanket dismissal of this author as "feminist bullshit", as if feminism is some kind of bad word. to me, people overcoming the limitations that other people want to put on them is inspiring. at heart, that's what feminism is about. bob, i'm not sure what the point of listing WR's impressive resume is. noone is disputing the fact that she was a badass climber. but why do you think women started putting together "women's" expeditions in the 1970s. Could it be because many talented women climbers couldn't get their foot in the door with the climbing establishment that controlled funding for the more conventional expeditions? it seems to me that the fact that WR climbed everest with an austrian team before being invited to join later polish expeditions kind of proves my point, but i don't know the details, so maybe not. women's expeditions have gone out of fashion and maybe they're no longer necessary. maybe that's a sign of progress, but it doesn't mean that they were ridiculous in their time. forrest_m proud son of an unrepentant feminist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griz Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 remember, to qualify your IQ must be less then the total number of points on your crampons... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted January 26, 2005 Author Share Posted January 26, 2005 forrest M wrote:"thank you, that is exactly my point. the story of them being the first women in this instance is interesting because in addition to the mountaineering story, there is also the issue of overcoming prejudice and stereotypes. though i have not read the book, i can certainly imagine that this COULD make an interesting story. in the hands of a hack, it could be patronizing and it might make me want to puke, but it could also be inspiring. i certainly don't know one way or the other. what pisses me off is the blanket dismissal of this author as "feminist bullshit", as if feminism is some kind of bad word. to me, people overcoming the limitations that other people want to put on them is inspiring. at heart, that's what feminism is about. bob, i'm not sure what the point of listing WR's impressive resume is. noone is disputing the fact that she was a badass climber. but why do you think women started putting together "women's" expeditions in the 1970s. Could it be because many talented women climbers couldn't get their foot in the door with the climbing establishment that controlled funding for the more conventional expeditions? it seems to me that the fact that WR climbed everest with an austrian team before being invited to join later polish expeditions kind of proves my point, but i don't know the details, so maybe not. women's expeditions have gone out of fashion and maybe they're no longer necessary. maybe that's a sign of progress, but it doesn't mean that they were ridiculous in their time." forrest, i just posted earlier some of the names of polish female 8000m summiters. http://www.gia.alpinizm.pl/pismo/gia/pol8000.htm so in the top 25 climbers there are 4 women. you must agree, that's pretty much the ratio you will see in the mountains (actually normally is more like 40:1). so this is my point. if among these 25 climbers there wouldn't be any women or one- yeah you can call discrimination. but if there is a 20% ratio of female climbers and the same ration goes to 8000m peaks, then what's your point about boys club? it would be good to hear opinion of real female alpinist. and i am sorry, but neither numbers nor my personal experience agree with your statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Schuldt Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Keep up the good work Bob! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted January 26, 2005 Author Share Posted January 26, 2005 What better time to write a book sensationalizing an event than after all that were involved are dead. Perhaps she wont feel so bad about profiting from her book/tour if she doesnt have any participants to call her out on being the gold-brickin slut she is? . couldn't say it better myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Without the pioneering spirit of these ladies, we might never have had Annabelle Bond! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted January 26, 2005 Author Share Posted January 26, 2005 plastic fantastic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolscongress Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 bob- the numbers don't really tell you anything about discrimination unless you know how many more women in your sample want to climb, but don't. it doesn't really matter. so long as women say that they experience discrimination, it exists. at first this thread was kind of funny, because i thought it was parody. but now it seems many of the posters believe what's being said. and that's just sad. why some of you are assuming the author of this book has only negative motives for writing it escapes me. maybe she's just interested in the topic? maybe the fact that women have always been discriminated against seems like a significant topic for her. but i guess, since she's a fucking bitch and a gold-brickin slut, we don't need to worry about what she thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 As long as male climbers are insulting one another by calling them "women," the playing field will not be equal. I mean you guys answered your own question by like the third post or something. I'm not a big fan of "women making a bid geal about being women." To the end, I have avoided women's coalitions in my male-dominated profession. I don't want to be marginalized. Maybe that's progress. But what I dislike even more than women making a big deal about women is men telling them they are lame for doing so. Sorry, you may be a badass climber, but the women thing is not your area. Trust me on this. And Klenke, there are women out there like you describe, brush bagging, peak scrambling babes. I know a lot of them, actually. But hey guess what! They all look a lot more like me than they look like Ms. Bond. Sorry to break the bad news on that. I'm also the offspring of an unabashed feminist. I don't know if I am one myself or not, as the concept is somewhat antiquated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 While I'm not familiar with the author or the book, just because the blurb mentions "the turmoil of entering a tradiationally male sport" doesn't mean even mean that it is a feminist book/author. The blurb was probably written by the publisher that wants to sell books, and may not even convey the intent of the author. There are a lot other fucked up things in the world to get worked up about than something like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 post more annabelle photos even though she never climbed k2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griz Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 geez, i have not looked at her website in a long time... she's humming right along...2 left with carstensz pyramid and denali. quite a fun year for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 where are the pictures in giant puffy fur-lined coat from Vinson Massif? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Maybe we can put a team of cc.commers together for the West Butt of Denali timed to hit her expedition time slot. We can call ourselves "Team Annabelle's Fan Club". Trigger a few stalker alerts Shes probably real fit from the other 5 summits and would kick our asses into next week. Gnar gnar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolscongress Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 As long as male climbers are insulting one another by calling them "women," the playing field will not be equal. I mean you guys answered your own question by like the third post or something. I'm not a big fan of "women making a bid geal about being women." To the end, I have avoided women's coalitions in my male-dominated profession. I don't want to be marginalized. Maybe that's progress. But what I dislike even more than women making a big deal about women is men telling them they are lame for doing so. Sorry, you may be a badass climber, but the women thing is not your area. Trust me on this. And Klenke, there are women out there like you describe, brush bagging, peak scrambling babes. I know a lot of them, actually. But hey guess what! They all look a lot more like me than they look like Ms. Bond. Sorry to break the bad news on that. I'm also the offspring of an unabashed feminist. I don't know if I am one myself or not, as the concept is somewhat antiquated. i disagree that this issue, or any injustice, is not our area. it's everyone's problem. if someone uses a racial slur with the intent to offend, i say something. same here. it's the way things get better. also, i'm confused as to how feminism could be antiquated. the idea that women should have the same legal protections and social rights seems like one that will never cease being important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Cross-posting to Spray.... I think one of Bob's points with reference to Wanda whatshername is that the very kind of women who are inclined to do this sort of thing are probably the most likely to recoil at the notion that "achievement X" is automatically more impressive when it has been accomplished by a woman, and consider such thinking more patronizing and retrograde than anything in Bob's post. Perhaps in these women's case being amongst the first women to do so presented them with special challenges that are worth recording, and somehow elevate their ascents to a significance beyond that endowed upon the dozens of male ascents - but I personally think that once the pioneering era has passed - which it has, IMO - then this sort of reportage can easily stray into something like the gender equivalent of Special Olympics coverage. "She climbed X - and ----gasp!---- she's a woman!" The person I did most of my trad climbing with in Colorado was a woman, and she - not I - was the sort of person who wouldn't blink at linking up a couple of Grade V's on The Diamond car-to-car and rolling into work on a couple of hours sleep in the morning and --- this sort of isn't-it-amazing-because-she's-a-woman stuff absolutely made her want to puke. i am in no way a hard woman. but i have to agree here. i like women and all, but this kinda shit just pisses me off. if she were just out there saying "this is what i experienced" i would be interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Good stuff, Tuff Girl! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 I'm also the offspring of an unabashed feminist. I don't know if I am one myself or not, as the concept is somewhat antiquated. Antiquated? Damn, when did I get old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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