Climbing/Recreation/Lifestyle in Wash. DC?

[glen]

Any of you folks out there ever lived in/around Washington DC? Any comments on the climbing, biking and outdoor stuff in the winter there? I've been to Great Falls (which are just a bump by Cascade standards) for some climbing about 4 years ago, but not much else around there. I have a good job offer in DC, and am contemplating a big move east.

 

How long is the drive out to places like Seneca, the Gunks, and the like? Anyone know about the mtn biking or cyclocross scene?

[Greg_W]

Kill yourself.

 

Actually, I would think that, depending on where you located yourself, you would have good access down into Virginia, etc.

[lost_arrow]

the folks at earth treks climbing gym are a great resource - adrian especially...check out their web site for contact and more info

[specialed]

I lived there for a few months. It sucked. Ass.

 

You can boulder at some slippery ass place called Carter Rock where you can work on your footwork to the point of extreme nausea. But there is actually a lot boulders in the woods around there that probably haven't been climbed on since George Washington was cranking v6. Seneca is like 4 hours through lots of traffic and super windy west viriginia roads. Other than that, just don't mention alpine climbing to anyone or be prepared for blank stares and a look of complete incomprehension.

Also be prepared to deal with omnipresent self-righteous suburban volvo driving beaurocrats and perhaps the most bland monoculture found in any city in the country.

 

However, so as not to be totally negative, D.C. does have lots of awesome dog parks and a cool dog owner scene.

[willstrickland]

Glen, I tried DC...lasted about 3 months. It fucking sucks. And I'm from the east coast, so it wasn't the culture shock that got me.

 

Gunks, about 5 1/2 hrs, but really anywhere from 5-8 hrs depending on how fast you drive/traffic.

 

Seneca is about 4 hrs.

 

The New River Gorge is about 5 1/2. Long drive, but it's one of the best cragging areas in the country, easily.

 

For local stuff, all you really have is Carderrock/Great Falls (which is the slipperiest, POS crag I've ever been to) but you know that already. There is also some bolted riverside choss a little NW of the city.

 

There is really good Mtn biking in both WVA and southwest VA (Blacksburg area has good stuff and WVA is full of good mtn biking).

 

Unless your idea of fun is sky-high real-estate prices, horrendous traffic, suburban hell-sprawl, rainy and cold winters, paralyzing hot and humid summers, and aggro people....avoid DC.

 

I have a few friends from college living there and some family there as well. Every time I visit I remember why I bailed. If you are playing the political power broker game, or attending UM or G-town, I would consider it, otherwise no way in hell.

[RuMR]

it basically sux...i grew up in vienna virginia...totally totally sucks...

 

you can reach seneca in about 3 hours and the NRG is about 5 hours or so...

 

there's also stuff about 2 1/2 hours in franklin...

 

there are some ok gyms to climb in too...

 

basically, give me your climbing gear so it gets used...

[EWolfe]

Sport-rappelling!

 

 

[cj001f]

GregW's right.I used to live there.

 

There's cragging close in at Great Falls/Carderock, a couple of climbing gyms (www.Sportrock.com - Alexandria, VA, Rockville, MD & Sterling, VA; www.EarthtreksClimbing.com Columbia, MD), without traffic (it's about as bad as Seattle traffic) it's 3.5hrs from the city center to Seneca Rocks W. Va, 5ish to the New River Gorge, W Va, 6 to the Shawanagunks, 10 to the Adirondaks. 2hrs to old school Granite cragging at Old Rag VA. Check out "Rockclimbing Virginia, West Virginia and Maryland" by Eric Horst. It has everything of merit within a long days drive.

 

Culture wise there isn't much of a climbing community (at least not to the degree in the PNW), nor much of a cycling community. The big outdoor circles were WW kayaking and sailing.

 

Feel free to PM me if you want more information.

[J_Fisher]

I lived in DC for about 6 years before I moved out here in '98. There's plenty to do but expect to do a lot of driving. There's crappy toproping at Great Falls and Carter Rock w/in 1/2 hour of DC. Seneca and its sister crags (Nelson, New Creek, etc.) is the closest real climbing at ~ 3 hours. (I think they're building a new freeway that may reduce this number a bit.) New River Gorge and the Gunks ~ 6 hours. Traffic SUCKS and can easily increase these times greatly, esp. going north/south on I-95. Rock climbing is good spring (wet) and fall. Summer is hot and extremely muggy. You can chase shade but it is sub-optimal. Winter cragging can be hit or miss. Maybe 55 degreees and some sun, maybe snow or freezing rain.

 

Ice climbing: Catskills ~6 hours (if it's pretty cold), Daks' 10 hours, NH 13 hours.

 

The skiing sucks and is a long drive and is not worth the bother.

 

If you're into the wilderness experience and wide open spaces you're not going to find it on the east coast.

 

There is a very big mtn bike racing and road racing scene. I don't know about cyclocross but I would guess that's there too.

 

The climbing gyms are really good compared to VW and SG in Seattle.

 

DC is cool b/c it attracts a pretty dynamic group of people. Way more diverse and less provincial. Culturally it's more work-centric than the PNW. Depending on what you do this may or may not be a factor. Housing is crazy expensive, but you'll probably make more too...

[sobo]

glen,

 

I lived in Front Royal for several years from late high school thru college. Front Royal is about an hour’s drive out of DC on I-66. There is climbing, albeit meager by our standards, at Great Falls of the Potomac and at Carder Rock in nearby Maryland. However, for real fun, head inland towards Sperryville and hike into Old Rag Mountain for some Pre-Cambrian (pink) granite trad. There was an article on the area in one of the climbing rags (R&I??) several years ago (15+) that gave good directions and route samples. Just watch out for bears!

 

Other areas in VA include Peaks of Otter (granite), down I-81 a ways to Danville. Also Dragon’s Tooth (limestone??) and White Face (Tuscarora Sandstone) near VA Tech. Also, five miles from my folks house, is a small (two-pitch) sandstone cliff in the National Forest that has some routes on it (some put up by yours truly). It is off State Route 55 between FR and Strasburg. The area is called Fort Valley, and the cliff faces west. Can’t miss it, just look up and left as you’re driving in along the creek. There are other small crags that I know about as well, one nice one near Harrisonburg on the grounds behind a VFW post out of town a ways, called Chimney Rock.

 

Seneca Rocks is by far the best and most concentrated climbing close to DC, only an 1.5 hour drive from Front Royal, so it’s 2.5 max from DC. GREAT climbing there. Gunks is quite a far drive. Consider heading down and west into NC for Moore’s Wall, Whitesides, Looking Glass, and Stone Mountain for your longer weekends. Or head into West VA for New River Gorge sandstone at Fayetteville.

 

RE winter stuff: Not much at all in the way of “real” BC skiing, but good lift-served groomers are available at Snowshoe in WV. Anything else is either too far to drive or just a bunny hill by our standards.

 

Ice climbing can be had during cold winters in VA, WV, and NC. I started there, but it is about as elusive a beast as it is here in WA. It’s a long day’s drive to NH for Huntington/Tuckerman’s Ravine at Pinkham Notch, but well worth a trip if you have a few days this winter. Be prepared for some SERIOUS (I mean fahqin serious) cold. 20 to 30 below is standard operating temps for climbing there b/w Christmas and President’s Day. Beware of avies in those ravines; folks get the chop up in there almost every year. Also there is other really classic stuff up there like Cathedral Ledge and Frankenstein Cliffs. An ice climber’s dream.

 

I wasn’t into biking when I lived there, so I can’t comment on that.

 

One last word of caution: The drivers on the East Coast all suck. Everyone’s in an incredibly huge hurry to get stuck in traffic. If you think you’ve seen gridlock in Seattle, think again. I went back last summer to visit the folks, and I count my lucky stars every time I think about it that I live out here now.

 

For more info, send a PM to RuMR, RobBob, or ryland moore. They can confirm or deny all that I’ve said.

[Lambone]

I think it comes down to whether or not you will like your job enough to overcome all the things that suck about the east coast. Otherwise you will just be back soon.

 

Tough call glen, I think you'll make the right choice...and just remember...there is only one thing that is permanent in this life...

 

Congrats by the way.

[J_Fisher]

perhaps the most bland monoculture found in any city in the country.

Huh? This is so untrue it makes my head spin. where did you hang out, the mall at Tysons Corner? The people I hung out with were from all over the country and the world and had huge diversity of backgrounds and view points. Contrast to here where apparently you get issued your green suburu with a dog and a "free tibet" sticker when you get your 206 phone number.

[sobo]

perhaps the most bland monoculture found in any city in the country.

Huh? This is so untrue it makes my head spin. where did you hang out, the mall at Tysons Corner? The people I hung out with were from all over the country and the world and had huge diversity of backgrounds and view points. Contrast to here where apparently you get issued your green suburu with a dog and a "free tibet" sticker when you get your 206 phone number.

 

Oh, I soooo have to agree with you on that one J_Fisher! Although you must admit, there is still a racial bigotry thing going on there once you get outta town a ways...

[chelle]

I haven't lived there but traveled there a lot on business in the mid-late 90s. On nearly every visit there was a story about a cyclist getting killed by some car not paying attention while speeding on the local roads.

 

If you do decide to head out there and are looking for an outdoor enthusiast to hang out with send me a pm. One of my best friends just moved there for a great job. For him it was a huge cultural upgrade from his last great job in Birmingham, Alabama.

[cj001f]

perhaps the most bland monoculture found in any city in the country.

Huh? This is so untrue it makes my head spin. where did you hang out, the mall at Tysons Corner? The people I hung out with were from all over the country and the world and had huge diversity of backgrounds and view points. Contrast to here where apparently you get issued your green suburu with a dog and a "free tibet" sticker when you get your 206 phone number.

J_Fisher apparently never left the square (DC + Alexandria). DC itself has some of the most interesting, driven, intelligant, people of any city. My apartment building had people from Croatia, Argentina, England, Italy,...

 

The DC Suburbs are some of the most bland, boring, provincial tract housing sprawl of any city in the USA. And the poverty of Appalachia & bits of the Delmarva is shocking.

 

I wouldn't count of getting paid much more than you'd make out here - so be prepared for a downgrade in your standard of living.

[specialed]

perhaps the most bland monoculture found in any city in the country.

Huh? This is so untrue it makes my head spin. where did you hang out, the mall at Tysons Corner? The people I hung out with were from all over the country and the world and had huge diversity of backgrounds and view points. Contrast to here where apparently you get issued your green suburu with a dog and a "free tibet" sticker when you get your 206 phone number.

 

Since when does diversity equal Clean, White, Professional and Suburban?

 

Though I'm sure the people you met there had some enthralling opinions on the current political issues of the day.

[sobo]

Hey glen,

 

Almost forgot to mention:

 

Appalachian Trail and Shenandoah National Forest for hiking/camping. Also the Dolly Sods Wilderness Area in WV and the Monangahela NF, too.

 

Lots of WW kayaking in your new area as well.

 

And you could find yourself becoming interested in the Revolutionary and Civil Wars battlefields/history. You will be very near to Manassas National Battlefield Park just outside of DC on I-66, and just short day trips to Gettysburg, Antietam, Sharpsburg, Harper's Ferry, Fort Valley, Chancellorsville, Fredericksburg, etc. etc.

 

National Air & Space Museum and Museum of Natural History (both a small part of the larger Smithsonian), The Met, Wolftrap, etc.

 

It may sound like I'm trying to put the hardsell on the place, but my aim is to indicate to you that while it does indeed suck there for many reasons, I try to find something good about the area so that you might, too. Whatever you do, enjoy.

 

If you need guidebooks to Seneca and Stone Mtn., I have old ones (15+ years) you could borrow, as well as a shitload of 7.5" topo quads for both VA and WV (I'd like to get them back for sentimental reasons).

[J_Fisher]

I thought glen asked about DC, not Manassas. My oops. I lived in NE capital hill, largely hung out in the U street/columbia environs. The experience living and hanging out in, say, Chevy Chase would likely be rather different. I suspect specialed was simply dissappointed that people in DC were not as impressed by his VW bus and collection phish tapes as the cool dudes out here.

 

I took a 30% pay cut to move out here for an equivalent position and found the cost of living was about the same. that was 6 years ago and was my experience only so YMMV.

[Lambone]

I wouldn't count of getting paid much more than you'd make out here - so be prepared for a downgrade in your standard of living.

 

 

apparently you are not aware that glen just gradumacated from UW. I think he is in for one hell of a boost in standard of living regardless of where he is!

[cj001f]

I thought glen asked about DC, not Manassas. My oops. I lived in NE capital hill, largely hung out in the U street/columbia environs. The experience living and hanging out in, say, Chevy Chase would likely be rather different. I suspect specialed was simply dissappointed that people in DC were not as impressed by his VW bus and collection phish tapes as the cool dudes out here.

 

I took a 30% pay cut to move out here for an equivalent position and found the cost of living was about the same. that was 6 years ago and was my experience only so YMMV.

 

It's good to see the DC 'tude wore off on you J Fisher. I left DC 2.5 yrs ago. I make the same (a bit more actually) at an equivalent position in PDX - and my standard of living is much better than it was.

 

It's great if you can live in DC. Depending on where you work (i.e. if you don't work downtown) this isn't really an option - unless you want hellacious commutes. So you're stuck in the neverending burbs of DC.

 

DC is a great experience to have for a year or two - it's a Capital city, with all of the aspects of court life. A unique experience to say the least. Just don't expect to live the outdoor lifestyle you can in the west.

[Ducknut]

Well I gotta throw in my 2.3 inflation adjusted cents.

 

I grew up in Annapolis, MD. I travel back there 6 or 8 times per year. Still have family living there.

 

I always wanted to rock climb when I was a kid, but didn't have the transportation or any local places to cclimb, so that is my excuse why I still suck at climbing. There wasn't much of a climbing culture and no one heard of pulling plastic then. There is a little more now. Carderrock and Great Falls are relatively close but limited in routes. Seneca, Gunks, New River, and other places are all a long road trip.

 

Whitetail, Ski Roundtop, Canaan Valley are all East Coast ice or mad-made slop skiing. Vermont, New Hampshire or Maine are all a solid day drive for more skiing, but it is limited in comparison. You won't need to brush up on any crevasse rescue skills since there hasn't been a glacier within 750 miles for 10,000 years.

 

The canoeing on the Shenadoah, Potomac, and other local streams can be fun. Sailing or boating on the Chesapeake is a blast. Fishing and crabbing can be hit or miss, although I hear the rockfish (striped bass) have recovered and provide some sport. Forget about hunting anything except urban deer and geese. The Appalachian Trail isn't too far away but its hardly a wilderness experience. You can drive 2 or 3 hours and go to the beach (Ocean City) and actually swim in the warm water.

 

I moved back there again for grad school and my first couple of jobs. Been offered other jobs back there more recently, but turned them all down. The Baltimore/Washington Megacity has over 7 million people in it. Its very expensive and I have always found commuting there to be terrible. Its very common to spend 1-2 hours commuting each way for relatively short commutes.

 

Culturally, DC has great opportunities. Museums, art, Smithsonian, government buildings, rich ethic neighborhoods and food. The METRO is an efficient clean way to get around downtown. There are a bunch of commuter trains that run from rural areas into the city. There are many things going for DC for those like that lifestyle and what it has to offer. But life is too short to trade off the NW lifestyle for me to ever consider living there again.

[J_Fisher]

It's good to see the DC 'tude wore off on you J Fisher.

No, I had the 'tude before I moved there. Probably why I got along fine.

[Matt]

You're value as a human being:

 

in NYC, it's all about how much money you make.

 

in LA, it's how beautiful you are (or your girlfriend)

 

in Washington DC, your place on the food chain is determined by your proximity to power.

 

In DC something like 1 in 45 people are lawyers. Highest percentage in the country.

 

Horrible weather. muggy/humid in summer. Not enough snow to ski, but when it does snow the whole city shuts down. Foreign diplomats get hazard pay when posted to Washington DC.

 

Good luck. I love the metro in DC. I love the Mall, especially the Museum of Natural History.

[ivan]

i tried climbing the lower wall of the capital last fall (right behind all those magnificent magnolia trees)...though totally out of sight, men with guns appeared before i was 10 feet up the column. people in d.c. have no sense of humor. my bro and i retired to the national arboretum right next door and proceeded to pick a mouthful of khat from the east africa display. good times.

 

virginia sucks. i fled as a rat from a sinking ship. seneca is extremely cool however, but hardly worth selling your soul to g.w.

[arlen]

Just to counter--the commute from downtown to the burbs is really pretty easy, like working in Tacoma. The sense of history in central DC is big and palpable compared to Seattle (some of these buildings are over twenty years old!).

 

IMHO everybody should sample East Coast life for a couple years, because there's an appreciable difference between candid dog-eat-dog sailing sportos and grumpy peter-pan mountain sportos that quite often slips past the more sheltered view. And it's kind of freeing to not have to claim to be "training for alpine." But it will wear you down, so don't throw away that headhunter's card.