cj001f Posted August 4, 2004 Posted August 4, 2004 summit registers are by nature a transient, ephemeral resource. i have enjoyed finding a few and even reading through some long winded ones. but it does not bother me to hear that they have gone missing or been removed either. its in the nature of the game. That they were damaged/went AWOL for natural reasons is understandable to me. Because someone comes up with some crackpot jihad about human marks in the environment and destroys them I find very lame. Quote
Ricardo_Montalban Posted August 4, 2004 Posted August 4, 2004 I believe that registers are trash and am surprised to see so many contrary opinions. The only benefit of a register (that I have heard so far) is inspiring newbie climbers by reading entrys and making their own. Otherwise, the 'first ascent', 'a historical record' for proof, and 'it's a tradition' reasons are solely to stroke your ego. Who the fuck cares if you have FA, or have a record from 3 years ago so you can prove that you summited. Â Â Get a little tired of folks in the back country not wanting anything or anyone to intrude on "their" view of what the wilderness is supposed to be wilderness areas are set aside for visitors looking for a wild experience. encountering motorized vehicles, large parties, and trash all detract from the definition of 'wild'...which is why they're banned. Leaving trash behind is also illegal and unethical. Registers also take away from the experience I consider 'wild'. Does NOT having a register take away from your wilderness experience? Â Â Larry the Tool & AlpineFox, let me know if you want another garbage hauler on your next cleaning expedition. Quote
rbw1966 Posted August 4, 2004 Posted August 4, 2004 Last summit register I saw was on Mt. Washington. A big-ass ammo can with a half-sheet of folded paper and a pen. Although it didn't particularly ruin my summit experience (the 6 Mazamas clogging the descent did more to further that end) I did find such a large can with so little in it sitting in the middle of the summit plateau obtrusively, pretty lame. Â Of course signed it, gapertimmy style. Â I think they are trash too but I'm not going to get my fishnets all soiled thinking about it. I got bigger things to worry about like if my shoes match my harness and how to tuck that string back in. Quote
cj001f Posted August 4, 2004 Posted August 4, 2004 wilderness areas are set aside for visitors looking for a wild experience. encountering motorized vehicles, large parties, and trash all detract from the definition of 'wild'...which is why they're banned. Leaving trash behind is also illegal and unethical. Registers also take away from the experience I consider 'wild'. Does NOT having a register take away from your wilderness experience? Â Â Larry the Tool & AlpineFox, let me know if you want another garbage hauler on your next cleaning expedition. Â Do you follow a trail on your "wilderness experiences"? Â If you go about removing registers at least save them, don't chuck. Quote
MervGriffin Posted August 4, 2004 Posted August 4, 2004 BTW: I have a different set of ethical standards re: bolting in "sport climbing" areas. Let's try to stick to the summit register issue here.... Â Then I think your argument is inconsistent. Â I'd like to jump in here to Alpinfox's defense for a moment. Alpinfox and I are proudly working to remove some of the crap that you climbers leave about wherever you go. Â How about starting with a few hundred thousand of these?: Â Quote
Alpinfox Posted August 4, 2004 Posted August 4, 2004 Dwayner, While I appreciate your point, I make a practical exception for bolts. I understand that this is a very fine point, but I'm willing to accept bolts (preferably with powder-coated hangers) assuming natural pro is not available or so widely spaced as to make the route too dangerous (yes, subjective) without them. I recognize that the wilderness would be a more pure and beautiful place without bolts and that my personal allowance for bolts is an arbitrary line that I have drawn with my own selfish interests in mind. Â Do you follow a trail on your "wilderness experiences"? Â Yes, it's quite obvious that we cannot have an absolutely pure wilderness experience. Thank you for pointing out the obvious. It's "aid" because I drove in a car to get to a trailhead, it's "aid" because I used a trail... my entire life is "aid" because I was born in a hospital. Reductio ad absurdum. The point is that trails are a necessary evil and summit registers are NOT NECESSARY. In fact, a single, well-maintained trail MINIMIZES human impact. Â If you go about removing registers at least save them, don't chuck. Take them back to the MountainEars and say, "Um, I found this crap in the mountains and it had your name on it, so I thought I'd return it to you." Â The Seattle Mountaineers 300 Third Ave West Seattle, Wa 98119 Â Quote
Ricardo_Montalban Posted August 4, 2004 Posted August 4, 2004 (edited) Do you follow a trail on your "wilderness experiences"? most often i don't. when i'm on a trail i do expect to see the usual crap along a trail like trash, cig butts, poop/tp, etc. and i do my best to collect and remove that trash (except for the poop). Â If you go about removing registers at least save them, don't chuck. where would you like me to send them? Â edit: good idea AF, i'll send them to the mountaineers, COD Edited August 4, 2004 by Ricardo_Montalban Quote
John Frieh Posted August 4, 2004 Posted August 4, 2004 So fox: after clipping rap bolts on Infinite bliss did you snag the summit register? And if one wasn't there would you have taken it assuming one did exist? Quote
dkemp Posted August 4, 2004 Posted August 4, 2004 I'm on my third year of carrying a summit register with me. I sign it, and my team signs it, and I carry it back down. Summit Register 2004 already has a bunch of stuff in there. Â Someday I'll look back on them, or at least thats the plan. Quote
cj001f Posted August 4, 2004 Posted August 4, 2004 Yes, it's quite obvious that we cannot have an absolutely pure wilderness experience. Thank you for pointing out the obvious. It's "aid" because I drove in a car to get to a trailhead, it's "aid" because I used a trail... my entire life is "aid" because I was born in a hospital. Reductio ad absurdum. The point is that trails are a necessary evil and summit registers are NOT NECESSARY. In fact, a single, well-maintained trail MINIMIZES human impact. They aren't NECESSARY in your opinion. But your to damn wrapped up in your own ego to realize that. They ain't the best thing, but no need for a jihad. Bolts, rap slings, and horsecrap are all more annoying to me. Quote
Ricardo_Montalban Posted August 4, 2004 Posted August 4, 2004 how are registers NECESSARY for anyone??? Quote
Stefan Posted August 4, 2004 Posted August 4, 2004 Registers are not necessary. Â Climbing is not necessary. Â It all depends on your own personal opinion of how far you want to take a "necessary evil". I still do not believe you should destroy something other people value. Â Some people believe a fire ring is a necessary evil to enjoy a fire. Others will destroy the fire ring to stop people from building fires. Chances are, another person will come buy and build a new fire ring if the old one is destroyed. Â I wonder why Europe has so many crosses on top of mountains? Maybe the people value that symbol when they get to the summit. Maybe a register has a value of a symbol in the same manner. Â Alpinfox would go crazy in Europe with all those bolted crosses! Quote
rbw1966 Posted August 4, 2004 Posted August 4, 2004 I wonder how big a summit register would be on Hood. Can you imagine the wait time you'd kill cueing up to sign it? I've counted over 100 people on the south side route in a single day before. Â Starbucks could make a killing. Quote
slothrop Posted August 4, 2004 Posted August 4, 2004 Alpinfox said: (As an aside, there IS censorship at public libraries. Try to find Penthouse magazine the next time you visit a public library). Summits are quiet, holy places where (some) people go to meditate... Â You're so right! Hustler, on the other hand, is readily available to the public. Â Quote
Ricardo_Montalban Posted August 5, 2004 Posted August 5, 2004 I still do not believe you should destroy something other people value. Â I value a wilderness area without litter, as I'm sure many others do. Too much trash encountered can destroy (or at least scar) that experience (unless I find a Hustler!). Quote
cj001f Posted August 5, 2004 Posted August 5, 2004 I value a wilderness area without litter, as I'm sure many others do. Too much trash encountered can destroy (or at least scar) that experience (unless I find a Hustler!). As this thread shows, the majority of people here don't view a register as litter. Unlike bolts, they are easily removable, so if in the future this position changes it's easily rectifiable. Quote
sobo Posted August 5, 2004 Posted August 5, 2004 You're so right! Hustler, on the other hand, is readily available to the public.  Ralph, you're killin' me... again! Quote
Alpinfox Posted August 5, 2004 Posted August 5, 2004 Â Â Wasn't that Hustler removed from the "library"? Â Quote
sobo Posted August 5, 2004 Posted August 5, 2004 Wasn't that Hustler removed from the "library"? Â That would just be poor form... unless it was replaced by a newer edition! Quote
marylou Posted August 5, 2004 Posted August 5, 2004 I'm on my third year of carrying a summit register with me. I sign it, and my team signs it, and I carry it back down. Summit Register 2004 already has a bunch of stuff in there. Someday I'll look back on them, or at least thats the plan.  Now that is awesome! Quote
Ricardo_Montalban Posted August 5, 2004 Posted August 5, 2004 As this thread shows, the majority of people here don't view a register as litter. As the length of this thread shows, not everyone agrees. what's your point? Quote
swaterfall Posted August 5, 2004 Posted August 5, 2004 I can understand the point of people who don't like summit registers, but aren't there like 10,000 things with more impact on your 'wilderness experience"? Ex. fire rings, micro-trash in bivy sites, trails themselves, human p00p, T paper, other climbers, rap slings, bolts, fixed pins..... Â I just fail to see any reason to get your panties in a bunch about a can on top of a summit when there are plenty of other worthy targets for cleanup. Quote
cj001f Posted August 5, 2004 Posted August 5, 2004 As the length of this thread shows, not everyone agrees.what's your point? 11 People think they are Trash. Â 90 People either Don't Care (21) or Think they have value (69). Your in the small majority. Jihad on! Quote
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