alpine paragliding

[sayjay]

Anyone out there a climber and a paraglider?

 

I'm looking to get into paragliding so I can climb up, fly down. Wondering if anyone out there has tried this or does it and could tell me how realistic this is in the Cascades before I go spending lots of $$ on lessons and gear...

Seems to me that while optimal flight-time is to be had in the summer, the winter offers some great opportunities to climb up and fly down. With all the boulder fields and low brush covered with snow and the lakes frozen the mountains are just covered with launch and landing spots. Also not such a heavy TOOL presence so less likely to get caught flying in places you're not supposed to.

 

Am I nuts or on my way to nirvana?

[mattp]

About ten or fifteen years ago, a group of Leavenworth climbers took up paragliding and I believe one was used on the first car-ro-car one-day ascent of Mount Stuart. However, I believe that almost everybody in the group suffered serious injuries at some point and at least one was killed. Since then, I am told that the equipment has come a long way and "it is a whole different sport." But be careful.

[ryland_moore]

I have thought about this too! I took some lessons when I lived in Wyoming and loved it, but never flew off anything higher than around 8,000' (not too far above the valley floor at 7,000')Especially the volcanoes would seem to be ideal launches. They would allow for multiple directions to launch from. Let me know whatcha find out!

[Mr._Natural]

I have heard that paragliders are considered to be a fixed wing, and are therefore not allowed in NCNP, MRNP etc. not sure about FS areas, but since tiger mtn is so popular my guess would be that it is cool. I got to try it once for free and WOW is about all I can say.

[dkemp]

Couple years ago I was on the football field at the top of Baker, and these guys started unfurling parapentes, saying they were gonna fly to Baker Lake. Under my breath I scoffed they would never make Baker Lake.

 

On the descent we took a water break at the bottom of the Roman Wall and I saw them flying over - way way up there - obviously and easily on their way to the lake.

 

My skydiving days are over, but my instructor from those days of old is interested in exactly this. He wants to do scramble type climbs with a flight over wilderness areas. I suggested south ridge of Maude with landing in Spider Meadow.

 

-Dox

[ryland_moore]

They are considered a fixed wing, but I am not sure if it is illegal to fly over a national park, they are just not allowed to land in one. In the Tetons, plenty of paragliders fly off the mountains (see glider planes flying a few hundred feet off the summits too), but if they land in the park, their gear is confiscated. I wouldn't think that if you flew off of a mountain in the NCNP and landed in say the Pasayten, that you would get in trouble.

[Matt]

quote:

---

Originally posted by sayjay:

Am I nuts or on my way to nirvana?

---

Probably both! This is a good thing!

[Jim]

I've taken some lessons and have had a few flights solo, the biggest was off St. Helens. I've used borrowed and rented equipment. It's expensive, you could get a decent used rig for about $1,200 and you would definetly want a beeping altimiter. It's fun but it's risky, take lessons. There's a place at Chelan that you can get certified for solo in a week or so. To me the drawback is the weight of the glider and harness. If it were a technical climb I don't know how you would get all your crap back down with you. Maybe this is for the experienced crowd.

 

If you're starting off the volacanoes are good, eastern WA hills are better. There's a small place off the west side of Tiger Mt. that's decent, though the most efficient way up is to pay this guy for a ride in his pickup.

[lizard_brain]

I tried paragliding for a while a couple of years ago. Gave it up partly because of the expense. I was renting gear during my lessons - at the time, the gear purchase and lessons cost about $5,000.

 

I've seen people glide off of Baker and land at the helipad at the ranger station - highly illegal, but they considered the fines part of the expense involved. I met them later and they said they had done Adams also, and were planning a couple of others.

 

A couple of disadvantages of this are that the conditions have to be perfect to take flight, and if they aren't, well, you just carried a 40 lb. kite (in addition to your gear) to the summit, and you get to carry it back down. Finding and making it to your intended landing zone can be a problem - I don't know how many places there are to land near the volcanos, excluding private property and power lines and roads with 60 mph vehicles.

 

Some advantages - two days up; 45 minutes down. That's about it.

 

Personally, I preferred skydiving. Better rush, and you go up in an airplane instead of lugging your gear to a hilltop.

 

[ 08-06-2002, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: lizard brain ]

[lizard_brain]

P.S. You can probably find a certified instructor at Tiger - just go to the landing zone there and ask around.

[lizard_brain]

Here's their website....

[Jim]

Heads up on who you can find for an instructor at Tiger. There's a couple of cowboys who are out there regularly. I'd vote for around Chelan where the weather is better and so are the variations in rides.

[freeclimb9]

Been there, done that.

Your premise about optimal flight times in Summer is incorrect. Colder air is more dense, and offers more lift, so Winter can be much better.

The problem with the whole climb-then-fly scenario isn't when conditions are great, or when the suck. In those cases, the decision to fly, or not, is clear. When conditions become marginal, however, the decision making process can be torqued by adrenaline, and bad decisions are made. And there is no safety line.

The fact is, if you fly, at some point you're gonna bounce. Maybe really hard.

[sayjay]

Hey y'all,

Thanks for all the feedback. I actually tried parapenting for a couple of days in New Zealand about 10 (!) years ago, so i have some idea what it's all about. My plan is to get certified in the ~1 week course offered here in Washington (the place a couple of you suggested), only I'll probably hit their Arizona site in November.

Glad to hear at least a few sightings have been made of people flying in the Cascades. My inspiration actually came when I saw someone fly off the Sulphide Glacier when I was getting ready to head up Shuksan N.F, but that's the only time I've seen one in an alpine setting. Pretty damn inspring....

As for the legality of it all, I can deal with the fines as part of the expense here and there, as long as they don't take my rig away!

Also, I think rigs w/ harness are closer to 25lbs than 40lbs, but yes, still a lot of weight to haul up and possibly down.

If I pull it off, I'll certainly be posting TR's to this site -- with pictures from the air!

Sarah

[Lowell_Skoog]

Forget about using a paraglider to descend from climbs.

 

On the other hand, descending from a *hike* can be nice. The problem is, the entire trip ends up being planned around the flight. It's not like you go do a climb and bring along the glider as a bonus. The success rate on big peaks like volcanos is probably quite a bit less than 50%.

 

Check out the NW Paragliding Club site:

 

http://www.paraglider.org

 

or my own site, where you can find some pictures of mountain flying:

 

http://www.alpenglow.org/paragliding

[gapertimmy]

i'm pretty sure it is allowed in national parks. I know gliders arrange with rangers at Yosemite to fly off from Glacier Point in the valley, not sure about other parks though.

 

FS seems to be totally fine with it. I know gliders are a regular fixture on Bachelor. Not sure if they ride the chair up or hike up, but they're always up there.

 

timmy

[MtnGoat]

For info on paragliding the NW, classes, and gear, try this outfit:

 

http://www.airplay.com

 

They own a training hill outside of Cashmere and frequent various hills on the eastside such as Baldy on the Yak, Saddle Mtn, and of course Chelan butte.

 

If you look on the images page you'll see one of a guy launching off Mt Daniel.

[Guest]

Flying devices are illegal on the ground in wilderness areas but the FS will probably not do much about paras unless they are LTT types.

Yosemite: what about flying Half Dome to the valley floor/Curry village? Swoop in and steal a pizza off the deck or crashland on a bear in the meadow

[Dwayner]

Dwayner tried a little paragliding....went to paragliding school out of Ellensburg. As the simplest form of flight, it was attractive but I'm practically cured of the whole thing. Some observations:

 

a) it is definitely a fair-weather endeavor. These fabric wings are not those of a jumbo-jet. They have a very limited range of conditions in which they can be safely flown;

 

b) just because you're a climber doesn't mean you'll automatically enjoy this stuff. It scared the heck out of me while my non-climbing buddy (who is terrified on the easiest of practice crags) loved every minute of it;

 

c) it can be really dangerous. One of my old guiding colleagues (Jeff Splitgerber) back in the day met his doom flying the wing. Myself, I once got sucked up into a thermal on a hot August day and then half of my wing collapsed sending me plummeting toward a hillside. I recovered in time but then got slammed into the ground from about 10 feet up. I felt like I had been beaten with a stick. The point...there is a lot to learn and it's really fun until something goes wrong (and there is a lot that can go wrong) so seek the best instruction available.

 

People have done crazy things with the paraglider/parapente...like that wacky Frenchman who took off from the summit of Everest and was back in Base Camp perhaps 10 minutes later. Keep in mind, some of these summits are small and the conditions have to be just right (plus you gotta haul all of that flying crap up there with you, usually in the form of a large soft back pack with the wing, harness unit, etc....I used to think it would be cool to jump off of Liberty Bell and such, but basically you have one chance to do it right.

 

You know why I drink all of them Mickey's???

 

Read Some of These!

 

 

 

OY!

[David_Parker]

Parapenting is great if approached as a sport in itself. But to think of it as an easier way to descend after a climb is contrived. It works well in Chamonix because conditions support it, but don't assume it works everywhere. The Cascades are a whole lot different than the valley in Cham.

 

You have a big learning curve and beware if you lug that thing to the top of some mountain, you may feel added pressure to use it when you really shouldn't. My brother was quite expeienced before his wing collapsed after dropping below a ridge flying off La Sal in S. Utah. He cratered on a lake and was lucky he didn't bust through. I saw the video and it was disturbing. He was evacuated by snowmobile driven by Captain Morgan. He's ok, but has since toned way back.

 

Eventually your going to have an accident...are you prepared?

[climbhigher]

Signed up for lessons a couple of years ago and bought all the gear. My intent was to do just what you are talking about - climbing up and sailing off. I have hardly used it. Not even enough to get certified solo. (I can solo only under direct supervision and constant radio contact with instructor). It turns out that I don't get much of a rush out of it. As a beginner I must wait until conditions are perfect so I spend more time watching others fly. I sit there thinking "If I had went climbing I would have lead three routes by now". Then when I do fly it is a nice little ride under a smooth sail. Not much of a rush. I prefer a good multipitch climb any day. If I had it to do over again I would have spent my money on climbing or bike gear.

[Jason_Martin]

There were two people (an older Euro and a younger woman) on Baker yesterday with a glider. I'm not sure what kind it was because they were unable to fly.

 

The guy told me that the winds had to be under twenty-six miles an hour to fly off the summit. Unfortunately for this guy, the winds were way over that yesterday. And realistically on a volcano I doubt the winds are favorable for these guys most of the time.

 

He told me that he flew off the summit once before and landed in Glacier! Seemed like a pretty cool way down.

 

Jason

[Teogo]

Paragliding; soloing without the effort...can't remember who said it, but there you go. I had five or six acquaintances/friends take up the sport all but one got pretty busted up at one point or another,(compressed discs, broken backs etc.). Getting lured into flying in conditions over your skill level is just way to easy for most people.

 

I'm intrigued that folks would take a one week course and figure they can fly---it's not like you can get out and walk when things go awry.

A comparisson might be how much experience would you want to have before you started soloing moderate rock or ice routes? Ya, I know that you have got to get the experience to build up your judgement, but I'd be very careful with this pasttime. We all climb differently, but if we screw-up we all fly the same.

[D-dog]

That stuff is dangerous, man. Skip the gliding and go to BASE. All you have to do is stick to really steep routes, and it's all good.

 

Seriously, though, paragliding IS a dangerous sport and I know several folks who have been injured or killed doing it. Scott Franklin was, though it was 'cause he was clipped by another flyer I believe. Thermals and air in general are complex - particularly in the mountains. I've been under canopy on many a BASE jump on relatively non-windy days and been kicked around enought to cause partial canopy collapse. BASE canopies are designed to re-inflate consistently and quickly, so our margin for error under canopy is bigger.

 

Carrying a BASE rig up a route and then jumping down is really neat - no long slog back down! But, as another poster noted, the jump ends up being the focus of the climb - not the reverse. Wind conditions, exit point location, landing area considerations. . . all are non-climbing issues you'd have to face with paragliding, as well. It actually adds complexity to a climb, versus just hiking/rapping down.

 

Best of luck, and be safe.

 

Peace,

 

D-d0g

 

ps: the NPS is wildly inconsistent with their application of the "fixed wing" category in NPs and National Monuments. They let hang gliders in Yosemite, but BASE is heavily prosecuted there. The difference? Only the NPS knows. At Lake Powell (under NPS jurisdiction), it is illegal to jump a parachute into the water, but legal to jump off the same cliff into the water without a parachute. Actually, they are on record as saying they'd bust you if you jumped off a cliff into the water while holding a bedsheet over your head - that is, if the sheet inflated enough to slow you down. No, I am not making this up.

[sayjay]

I think it's hysterically funny that a BASE jumper is telling me how dangerous paragliding is !!!

 

Really, tho, thanks for the insight. I figured I'd be able to get some feedback from people with experience, which it sounds like you have... I'm definitely going to learn to fly and guess I'll take it one step at a time as to how much of it I end up doing in combination with hiking/climbing.

 

D-dog you didn't know Steve Mulholland did ya?