[TR] Le Petit Cheval near WA pass- Spontaneity Arete 7/20/2004

[scott_johnston]

Rat;

The fixed ropes are on the approach. They aleviate the need to rope up for short sections. They also speed up the descent through the scruffy and loose cliff bands. Most climbers won't need them but some will be glad they are there especially if you are come down during a hail and rain storm.

Scott

[rat]

part of learning how to climb is learning how to deal with those situations. this isn't europe. as i said, fixed hand lines are garbage.

[Greg_W]

part of learning how to climb is learning how to deal with those situations. this isn't europe. as i said, fixed hand lines are garbage.

 

Well said, rat. Mountain garbageman have been known to clean things up a time or two.

[lost_arrow]

rat / greg - what a load of shit. are you serious? do you use the handlines littered around squamish? what about fixed raps in an alpine environment? are those mountain garbage?

 

"learning how to climb is learning how to deal with those situations" - exactly! that is why the hand line is there, after years of experience, and in the interest of establishing a moderate line, a handline over a crappy ball bearing strewn slab of deteriorating granite is an excellent idea. and no more trash than a rap sling on a tree or a two bolt anchor with chains.

 

a huge thanks to scott and larry.

[Greg_W]

Squamish is a cragging area, despite it's size, for one. Two, I agree with rat: the alpine environment is no place for "fixed" handlines simply because the ground is loose. Maybe there should be handlines on the upper 800' of Serpentine Arete, it's loose; what about up the Beckey Gully to Liberty Bell? It's loose and "ball-bearing" strewn there. Putting up handlines in an alpine environment "in the interest of establishing a moderate line" means that more people who haven't learned to travel safely in that environment will go and get hurt.

[specialed]

Fuck fixed lines. I want a telepherique to every summit in the WA Pass area, year-round access, and a bar at the top of Bergundy Col with deck, a grill, and sexy cocktail waitresses.

[Greg_W]

Fuck fixed lines. I want a telepherique to every summit in the WA Pass area, year-round access, and a bar at the top of Bergundy Col with deck, a grill, and sexy cocktail waitresses.

 

A Starbucks at Kangaroo Pass featuring the latest in world music and oppression-free farmed coffees would be great. Oh, and cinnamon rolls, too.

[TimL]

part of learning how to climb is learning how to deal with those situations. this isn't europe. as i said, fixed hand lines are garbage.

 

Hey Rat...when did Yosemite become part of Europe? I know plenty of routes that have fixed lines on the approches and descents. West Face of Leaning Tower ring a bell?

 

GregW...really, no offense, but WA Pass is just another rock climbing crag right off the road.

[Greg_W]

GregW...really, no offense, but WA Pass is just another rock climbing crag right off the road.

 

Good point, Tim, I've referred to it that way myself. I usually only consider the Lib Bell group as such, though.

[dryad]

Man, all you extra Y-chromosome, too hardcore for your own good types really piss me off. Is it really so bad to make a route a little bit more user-friendly once in a while?

 

Ditto everything what lost_arrow said.

[Alpinfox]

Is it really so bad to make a route a little bit more user-friendly once in a while?

 

It's a "slippery slope".

 

 

[Greg_W]

Man, all you extra Y-chromosome, too hardcore for your own good types really piss me off. Is it really so bad to make a route a little bit more user-friendly once in a while?

 

Ditto everything what lost_arrow said.

 

Gee, Dryad, should we spraypaint directions on the approach for ya, or what? Give me a fucking break. It's not "more user friendly", it's an opportunity for those who don't know better to let down their guard.

[Szyjakowski]

Fuck fixed lines. I want a telepherique to every summit in the WA Pass area, year-round access, and a bar at the top of Bergundy Col with deck, a grill, and sexy cocktail waitresses.

HERE HERE i nominate you to push this thru congress...

after all it is a national park!

 

 

TimL-

i totally disagree but agree sort of with your statement about wapass being another crag area right off the road..

yes it is a crag area with nice short easy approaches where you can see your car from the summit but, not many "crag" areas have so much loose scary rock and timebomb fixed anchors...

fixed ropes are fukin trash and attract attention by the Government to limit our access to our beloved mts.

why give them another excuse to put a gate up and gaurds with fee stations....

think about it.

[specialed]

We atleast need a staircase up the Beckey gully and fixed lines on the rap so the car to car record for the Beckey route can be reduced by five minutes.

[John Frieh]

Is it really so bad to make a route a little bit more user-friendly once in a while?

 

Yes it is. If we made it easier for everyone there would be a fucking wheelchair ramp on el cap by now.

 

Climb the mountain on the mountain's terms; not yours.

 

If you don't have the skills stay in the gym.

[Greg_W]

Is it really so bad to make a route a little bit more user-friendly once in a while?

 

Yes it is. If we made it easier for everyone there would be a fucking wheelchair ramp on el cap by now.

 

Climb the mountain on the mountain's terms; not yours.

 

If you don't have the skills stay in the gym.

 

Nicely said.

[slaphappy]

Is it really so bad to make a route a little bit more user-friendly once in a while?

 

Yes it is. If we made it easier for everyone there would be a fucking wheelchair ramp on el cap by now.

 

Climb the mountain on the mountain's terms; not yours.

 

If you don't have the skills stay in the gym.

 

hypocrite

[chucK]

Is it really so bad to make a route a little bit more user-friendly once in a while?

 

Yes it is. If we made it easier for everyone there would be a fucking wheelchair ramp on el cap by now.

 

Climb the mountain on the mountain's terms; not yours.

 

If you don't have the skills stay in the gym.

 

Some excellent sound bites there. Too bad they don't apply very well to the world of your average climber.

 

Every route you've ever climbed that has had a bolt (or two!) installed, or has had moss scrubbed off, or has had a trail beaten to the base. has been made easier for you. Most stuff commonly climbed out there fits somewhere in between unblemished mountain and wheelchair ramp.

 

This hyperbolic posturing is wearisome

[layton]

They put the route up, I think, with the intention of Clients and newbies. If you are so hard core, why are you climbing this route anyway? STFU.

[John Frieh]

A quick questions:

 

Who is going to ensure that those ropes get replaced/maintained ever season?

 

Chuck: You point is valid (if not plainly obvious). The reason to discuss it here is we as a climbing community must police ourselves and attempt to determine what is acceptable and what is not.

 

Personally I think hand lines make the route more dangerous as it allows gumby punters lacking in judgement to get on a route that they probably shouldn’t. Furthermore the hand lines offer a false sense of security… any one want to guess how many days before those ropes are bleached out?

[jon]

Someone posts a TR on a brand new route they have put up and this is what they get in return. Get a clue.

[layton]

No kidding. Scott Johnson (don't know him) has put a lot of work in to routes at WA pass. Everyone is being such an ethical purist when most of them don't do shit. I'm guessing RAT knows Scott, however. the rest are being weinies.

[willstrickland]

Is it really so bad to make a route a little bit more user-friendly once in a while?

 

Yes it is. If we made it easier for everyone there would be a fucking wheelchair ramp on el cap by now.

 

Ooooh, can we have a wheelchair ramp to the top of the Ice Cliff glacier too while we're at it?

 

Climb the mountain on the mountain's terms; not yours.

 

Hmm, does that also apply to routes as well, or is the GP exempt from being climbed "on its terms".

 

If you don't have the skills stay in the gym.

 

Hey, maybe I'll see ya there!

 

 

Layton:

[rbw1966]

Climb the mountain on the mountain's terms; not yours.

 

If you don't have the skills stay in the gym.

 

Does this apply to beta as well? If you need beta are you not climbing the mountain on its own terms? Would you use the fixed lines on Denali? How about the cables on Half Dome? Clipping bolts?

 

I agree that we need to police ourselves but not everything needs to turn into chestbeating and pissing contests. Don't like these fixed lines don't use them.

[JayB]

No good deed goes unpunished eh?

 

Sucks when someone putting up new routes decides to share them here and gets this kind of a response. Let's keep things in perspective - posting the details of a new route here is a major, objective plus for everyone. Putting fixed lines on the approach is a very, very minor subjective minus according to a few people.

 

This should go without saying, but it might be worth taking a look at the lines - at the very least - before taking offense to them.

 

The notion that anyone who is intending to take on a mutlipitch trad route in the pass will have the bar dangerously lowered for them by a bit of fixed line on some scrambling is a bit much. Odds are that if they can handle the multipitch trad, they will not have their ability to function in the mountains fatally impaired by a handline or two.

 

I use the elevator to get to the office every day after I ride in but I can still manage to negotiate the stairs that lead to my apartment when I get home...