Simulclimbing Do's & Don'ts

[Retrosaurus]

Unless you are on very clean and unbroken terrain, you will most likely benefit from shortening your rope (by about half) to limit rope drag and to facilitate communication.

[Mr._Natural]

re: retro's comment: a good way to do this is to have the leader tie into both ends and have the second tie in with an 8 on a bite in the middle. This is good for several reasons...

[forrest_m]

so it's important and all to keep the rope as tight as feasible... but be smart about it, if you're in a tough move and there's a better stance a little ways up, keep moving. my feeling is that it is better to put some extra slack in the rope (possible problem if someone falls - unlikely) than to hang out in a bad stance getting pumped (definate problem - makes you likely to fall).

 

another vote for tying in short - about 25-30 meters is usually about right.

 

remember that you can simulclimb through harder terrain than you might think - if there's gear, the leader has close to the security of a regular belay, then he can stop and give the second a top rope through the hard section.

 

if you plan to do a lot of simulclimbing, bring more small gear and slings than normal - small gear doesn't weigh much and you can really stretch the pitches out without stopping to reload as often.

[b-rock]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mr. Natural:

re: retro's comment: a good way to do this is to have the leader tie into both ends and have the second tie in with an 8 on a bite in the middle. This is good for several reasons...

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Hmmm, how come?

[MATT_B]

Climb with someone you know well. you will have a better idea of how fast or slow they can move. You will also have a good idea of what they can and can not do. If you end up with some one you just met it will be a crap shoot.

[erden]

The second has to be the better climber on steep ground as a fall by the second is not allowed.

 

A fall by the second will pull the leader off her stance on steep ground and send her rocketing into the last pro that she placed...

 

Erden.

 

[ 07-30-2002, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: erden ]

[Mr._Natural]

since you asked, having the ropes doubled puts less stress on gear when shockloaded. if the leader needs to stop and set up a belay he/she has twin or double rope set up ready to go, which cuts down on rope drag for wandering pitches. no coils around neck, although having two ropes between parderns can sometimes be troublesome. this has all been discussed here in the past.

[terrible_ted]

I think Erik's point is one of the most important and deserves amplification... along with a spell-check....

 

quote:

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always having a pice between both climbers.

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This means that if you protect a move, then you almost always need to have a SECOND piece in BEFORE the follower gets to the move. That way, if your second peels off on the move (that worried you so much that you wanted to protect it), you'll have something that keeps you from being jerked from behind, falling past the 'tough' move, and on into the void. Or onto the gym floor. Whatever....

 

Of course, for all I know, Erik wanted you to have a 'pick' in between climbers, or a 'pie' or maybe even a 'pile'... The last is in case you're simulclimbing with a horse.

 

-t

[daler]

Mr. Natural,

 

Having the ropes doubled does not reduce stress, it actually icreases the impact force as the ropes have less ability to stretch if a fall happens.

Also my 2 cents for simul climbing- The second should have the rope running through their belay device so if they have to move through a crux and increase the slack they have the ability to quickly pull the slack up and start belaying.

 

dale

[Rodchester]

"Having the ropes doubled does not reduce stress, it actually icreases the impact force as the ropes have less ability to stretch if a fall happens."

 

This has always been my understanding also.

[Ben]

A doubled (halved?) 8-9mm rope works really well for many moderate routes in the Cascades. It's light, it gives you the desired 25m between climbers, and you can still climb decent sized steps of harder stuff with fixed belays (with a high margin of safety afforded by the double ropes). Of course, if you get into longer stretches of harder climbing, it gets annoying and slow to belay so many short pitches....

 

quote:

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Originally posted by Rodchester:

"Having the ropes doubled does not reduce stress, it actually icreases the impact force as the ropes have less ability to stretch if a fall happens."

 

This has always been my understanding also.

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If you're clipping both lines through each piece (twin rope style) then it will increase impact force. This is especially pronounced with fatter ropes. If you're already using a rope designed for twin rope climbing, then it's not so bad. Check your rope. If you're alternating strands (double rope style) then you don't have to worry about this effect. Obviously, the two styles of rope management shouldn't be mixed.

 

Another nice feature about two strands (that I hope I'll never have to rely on): on sections of sharp, horizontal ridgeline where you may have to employ the "jump off the opposite side of the ridge technique" (if you see the leader fall), two strands should be less likely to cut than one...

[genepires]

You can use tiblocs to mitigate the hazard of having the second climber fall and pull off the leader. Put the rope in the tibloc and then clip both into the protection biner. This is shown in the peztl catalog in the crevasse rescue section. If the second falls then the weight goes on the tibloc and the pro instead of the leader. If the leader falls, the weight is held by the piece as if the tibloc is not there, so there is no worry about the tibloc cutting the rope. Of course you will need lots of tiblocs but you could use them at strategic areas where a fall is more likely for the second. Or if you didn't need to buy the newest ice tool this winter you could afford to get 30 of them and be able to go 15 rope lengths before needing to reload the leader. What else are you going to do with your paycheck, buy lattes and fancy work shoes?

[iain]

hahahaha! I was wondering how long it would be before someone pulled out the petzl tibloc simulclimb solution! stirs up more controversy and flame than a good ol abortion debate.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Always consider simul climbing if you dont want to bivy

 

Simul climb on long routes if you want to get to the bar faster

[Mr._Natural]

quote:

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Mr. Natural,

 

Having the ropes doubled does not reduce stress, it actually icreases the impact force as the ropes have less ability to stretch if a fall happens.

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It does decrease the stress on the rope however.

 

[ 07-30-2002, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Natural ]

[texplorer]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that the stronger climber should be the lower climber. If the top climber falls it is like a leader fall. If the bottom climber falls there is a possibility that the rope could be pulled through the last piece and the top climber be slammed onto the last piece.

[Attitude]

quote:

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Originally posted by texplorer:

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that the stronger climber should be the lower climber. If the top climber falls it is like a leader fall. If the bottom climber falls there is a possibility that the rope could be pulled through the last piece and the top climber be slammed onto the last piece.

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Check erden's post above.

[Norman_Clyde]

If you have to buy a dozen Tiblocs before you plan to simulclimb, and set one up at every piece, then how much is simulclimbing "simplifying" your ascent?

I debated simulclimbing on Forbidden W. Ridge last weekend, and it's true we were slow because we didn't do it, but in the end it didn't seem worth the time saved, at least on this particular date with this particular pair of climbers. I think the situations in which simulclimbing is more favorable than either careful unroped climbing, or the usual belay are fairly limited.

[Cpt.Caveman]

If you have to buy any tiblocs before simul climbing you might want to just forget about simul climbing.

[genepires]

Don't you guys (and gals) see sarcasm when presented. Of course you are not going to buy a dozen tiblocs for a route. But if you have a few, they can be used.

[IceScrewed]

Other than DON'T FALL any other thoughts on the do's and dont's of simulclimbing?

[erik]

always having a pice between both climbers.

 

never simul on terrian near your abiliy.

 

communication is paramount. if one person feels uncomfortable, then stop simuling

 

i cannot think of more right now

 

erik

[ryland_moore]

I reiterate Erik's points. Communication is huge and simul climbing is not the time to overcommit yourself or your partner. Moving fluidly will come from practice. If you are climbing near your ability while simul-climbing, then you may end up moving slower than if you had just pitched it out.

[Cpt.Caveman]

quote:

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Originally posted by genepires:

Don't you guys (and gals) see sarcasm when presented. Of course you are not going to buy a dozen tiblocs for a route. But if you have a few, they can be used.

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I would never buy or use a tibloc for simul climbing. What good are they gonna do? Besides you can always use prusik slings and they don't destroy the rope.

[iain]

I think the arguement is that the Tiblocs would slide as the rope is pulled through while one would expect the prussik to do its job and catch when one would not want it to. That said it still seems a bit of a risk to rely on a sheath-catching ascender-style device to catch a fall. As far as I know, it was never designed for that function.