TrogdortheBurninator Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 I am hoping to climb Givlers crack this weekend, but my girlfriend is not ready to climb anything multipitch. It sounds like the crack can be lead as one long pitch. Is a 60m rope more than long enough for this? It looks in pictures like a fairly direct line so I cant imagine rope drag being to cumbersome, unless there is just a lot of friction against the rock. Basically are there any huge disadvantages to climbing it in one pitch? Anybody here done it as one and two pitches and care to comment on their preference? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 From the ground, you can't make it in one pitch without simul-climbing; I will assume that if your g/f isn't ready for multi-pitch, she might not be down with simulclimbing out of earshot. The first pitch is only about 60', or so, and you have visual contact the entire time. The second pitch is done in one long 60-m pitch, rope drag isn't too much of an issue, but communication is. Hope this helps. It was my first multi-pitch climb and a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCash Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Yep, what Greg says. The first pitch belay on that flake is a good stance, and very low exposure. All she has to do is break down one anchor, and clean 2 pitches. It's a piece of cake, go do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Depending on how you lead, she'll be cleaning between 12-16 pieces in two pitches (including 3 or 4 pieces for the belay anchor). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 You will come up roughly 30 ft short of the top with a 60 m. Go with Greg W's advice, but make sure whatever you do, your girlfriend is comfortable with it. The last thing you want to do is turn her off... (to climbing ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 givlers crack is multipitch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrogdortheBurninator Posted May 14, 2004 Author Share Posted May 14, 2004 She is very comfortable climbing, and she has comfortably cleaned a few single pitches this spring. Her only problem is being comfortable (mentally, not physically) at belays. She generally likes to get off a route as soon as she reaches the top. We tried R&D two weeks ago with a group of 3. Our first belay was safe and comfortable, but a little exposed. Needless to say, things did not go well and I lowered her back off, then completed the climb with my other partner. How big is this flake to belay from? I kind of think she would be happier on something that kept her standing and facing the wall compared to something like we encountered on R&D. I think it would feel more like an extension of the climbing, rather than having to step out of her comfort zone and be on a ledge. If anyone can think of another 2 pitch route with a ridiculously unexposed belay, that would probably make a great warm up. Also, any other ideas on getting somebody comfortable with multipitch climbing when they are very afraid of heights/exposure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Her only problem is being comfortable (mentally, not physically) at belays. portabong. fire in the hole. do it. she will chill. or freak. it will be fun either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCash Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 The flake is about 2 foot wide. I personally thought R&D was the perfect beginner route, and very unexposed. Maybe she is not ready for Givler's? Midway on Castle might be better. The first pitch belay on the top of Jello Tower is big and pretty flat. You can reach the top with a 60 meter rope from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Fear of heights generally stems from fear of falling to one's death. This can be minimized if you explain the physics of falling: how much energy one could possible generate in a fall and compare this to how much energy is required to blow up an anchor, a biner, a rope, a runner, etc. Reviewing John Long's climbing anchors or NOLS wilderness mountaineering will cover any gaps you might have. Also, make it a point to cite all the redundancies in your anchor when she arrives: if this blew up, this would back it up, etc. etc. Start on routes that are well below her climbing ability level with comfy belay ledges. Even better, do multipitch sport routes and then get into multipitch trad. As she builds confidence with those, you can work up to bigger routes. Finally, keep in mind multipich isn't for everyone. Gauge her enthusiasm for proposed routes and look to see if she is pushing to do a route (or if its all your idea). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryland_moore Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Maybe take her into Tumwater first where multi-pitch stances can be had where there are huge ledges and one may feel more comfortable standing. Then take her to Givler's where the belay flacke is really only 30 or 40 fett off the ground. She may like starting out on the ledge around to the right and back up where there is a tree anchor. If you start the first pitch there it is even a shorter first pitch. ALso, to make her feel more comfortable, it may be nice to have or borrow a set of talk abouts as you cannot here the leadder at the top on when to start heading up the 2nd pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 really what it comes down to is that the girlfriend is a lame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assmonkey Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Trogdor. Dude. assmonkey has some experience in matters such as these, perhaps I can save you some future heartache. I think you should just single pitch with your SO until she's ready for multis. She'll let you know when by suggesting she is ready on her own. Until that time, I would guess that she is really just trying to make you happy by following you up routes of your choosing. If you want this relationship to last, you may want to just let it go, and find some other buddies to climb multis with. I've had at least three "climbing" girlfriends over the past ten years who really looked great in snugtops, but weren't comfortable leading or anywhere off the deck. I have slowly learned in each relationship that pushing an SO where they are not yet ready to go is courting disaster in the relationship. Ouch, the memories are painful.  Anyway, I'll STFU now. Tread lightly here.  - Dr. Phil  Uh, I mean,  - a s s m * n k e y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Trogdor. Dude. assmonkey has some experience in matters such as these, perhaps I can save you some future heartache. I think you should just single pitch with your SO until she's ready for multis. She'll let you know when by suggesting she is ready on her own. Until that time, I would guess that she is really just trying to make you happy by following you up routes of your choosing. If you want this relationship to last, you may want to just let it go, and find some other buddies to climb multis with. I've had at least three "climbing" girlfriends over the past ten years who really looked great in snugtops, but weren't comfortable leading or anywhere off the deck. I have slowly learned in each relationship that pushing an SO where they are not yet ready to go is courting disaster in the relationship. Ouch, the memories are painful.  Anyway, I'll STFU now. Tread lightly here.  - Dr. Phil  Uh, I mean,  - a s s m * n k e y no way. no way. i dont believe it. push your girlfriend to climb hard. verbally abuse her is she wants to bail. talk about how fat her ass is. a lot. get her some dexedrine pills and buy packs of cigarettes too. she will be a great climber but only if you make her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squid Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 burn her off now. If she can't hang with you, its best to find out early before you invest too much time and emotion in her. Â If she's lame in the beginning, she'll be lame in the end. Â speaking of which, would someone please tell Icegirl that I want to talk to her? Â I think she's blocking my PM's or something.. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Midway would probably freak her out because of the step-across move after the belay, with you all out of sight above and unable to soothe her fears. Do Saber instead, where the belay is a huge ledge with a massive bolt anchor. There's a lot of traversing to get there, so be sure to protect well on the way over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 burn her off now. If she can't hang with you, its best to find out early before you invest too much time and emotion in her. If she's lame in the beginning, she'll be lame in the end.  speaking of which, would someone please tell Icegirl that I want to talk to her?  I think she's blocking my PM's or something..  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Mountaineers Dome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrogdortheBurninator Posted May 14, 2004 Author Share Posted May 14, 2004 We climbed mountaineers dome two weeks a go also, it went really good. We started on some garbage pitch on the lower section, then went and climbed left side crack all the way to the top. There was a nice ledge next to the tree at the top where she was actually ok hanging out for a long time. She then did a belayed scramble to the top of the dome. She liked the long climbing. She also liked that it was a dome and had the feeling that the ground was always close even though the climb was a full pitch. Maybe we will look at midway and saber. Is the ledge on midway big aside from the step across? As long as she can handle the belay, I have no doubts about her ability to climb the route. She has been showing more interest in multi-pitch stuff, but she is really scared of it. Thanks for all the good advice everbody (except lummox of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 tree route Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dberdinka Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Trogdor. Dude. assmonkey has some experience in matters such as these, perhaps I can save you some future heartache. I think you should just single pitch with your SO until she's ready for multis. She'll let you know when by suggesting she is ready on her own. Until that time, I would guess that she is really just trying to make you happy by following you up routes of your choosing. If you want this relationship to last, you may want to just let it go, and find some other buddies to climb multis with. I've had at least three "climbing" girlfriends over the past ten years who really looked great in snugtops, but weren't comfortable leading or anywhere off the deck. I have slowly learned in each relationship that pushing an SO where they are not yet ready to go is courting disaster in the relationship. Ouch, the memories are painful.  Anyway, I'll STFU now. Tread lightly here.  - Dr. Phil  Uh, I mean,  - a s s m * n k e y  assmonkey is a symian who speaks much wisdom. Listen to him. A health relationship and a healthy pursuit of climbing do not have to involve the same person (and are generally healthiest if they don't) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryland_moore Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Yes Midway ledge is huge. There are anchors off to the right when you get to the top of the pitch. If she is too scared to do the second pitch (the step across move) then there is an easy and I mean easy finish straight up from the anchors (maybe 5.4 or 5.5) in the "gulley". There is a spot for pro before the step across on the corner under the roof up about 7 ft high. The move is easier than it looks and as soon as you pull up onto the step above the move and out onto the face there is a bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 If she wasn't comfy on R&D, then don't take her on Givler's. R&D is the comfiest belays in the Icicle, almost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrogdortheBurninator Posted May 14, 2004 Author Share Posted May 14, 2004 I am not certain I set the first Belay of R&D in the best possible spot (exposure wise). I built it on a low angle slab with a nice flake and crack for pro. The ledge flattened about 5 feet below the anchor, but it was a realtively small, exposed flat spot. There was a better ledge to the side, but I saw less good protection opportunities. I understand that you can also start with the slabs on the right, but I dont know how that belay is. I am confident that the next few belays would have been comfortable for her given that they are large sandy ledges well protected by some of the surrounding rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 I think Ryland Moore is describing Canary, not Midway. Â I second the idea that if she is worried about sitting at belays on the R&D route, you are not going to find very many multi-pitch routes, andywhere, that she will find comfortable. Â If you are bent on a multi-pitch outing, I'd say Midway is probably a BETTER choice than Saber. But I'd set it up as three pitches, not two. You can set up on top of Jello Tower so that it is easy to look over the side and talk to her while she's scratching at the crux moves on the first pitch. FOr the second pitch,set up a belay in the corner system 80 feet above the step accross so that you'll be able to have eye contact with her as she hesitates to make the first step, and then again when she is on the crux traverse moves higher on the pitch (after the step accross, do not exit right into the squeeze chimney but climb up another 40 feet before moving right into the corner system above the squeeze). Â You might consider sticking with one pitch routes, though. Take a trip to Mount Eerie some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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