Redpoint?

[J_Kirby]

As said before, its all semantics. Given that, I'd call it pink because the route will be attempted on preplaced gear and brown because this must be a really pants filling route to not even attempt the onsight or redpoint.

[dylan_taylor]

Yes, my =

Edited April 6, 2004 by dylan_taylor

[sk]

As said before, its all semantics. Given that, I'd call it pink because the route will be attempted on preplaced gear and brown because this must be a really pants filling route to not even attempt the onsight or redpoint.

hey just 2 weeks ago i was working on my redpoint for Dancer 5.7, oants filling for me I don't have it clean yet can any one say PROJECT?? Edited April 6, 2004 by Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer

[texplorer]

Dylan, suppose you have a right to believe what you wish. I learned the "climb down" technique from a old school valley hardman. I asked the initial question because like yourself one of my partners had a differing opinion.

 

My experiences have taught me that climbing is about being crafty. One of my favorite things to do is to "cheat" within the rules. I have done sport climbs that allowed me handjam rests where my forearms totally recovered, place two pieces of gear and then as you enter the crux slide one up, and other such tricks to "onsight" and "redpoint" routes. When your trying to climb hard its all about playing the game.

 

I would also be curious as to what you consider climbing back down to the ground. Are fourth class boulders the the start or how about a big rock at the bottom. Also are you saying that any downclimbing is "off bounds" during a redpoint attempt? The way you make it sound is that if you go up and fondle a few holds before committing you've blown your onsite.

[sk]

IMHO climbing is on the wall, when you are on the ground you arn't climbing you are on the ground. That is just how I SEE it. so sure climb down to a killer rest milk it, but when you touch the ground you are 'off bounds'

[J_Kirby]

Watch out for that tricky route finding above the fifth bolt(!), you can really get into trouble there.

 

Last time I checked, Dancer was a .7. Now get out there and send that cruxy nubbin pullin.

[sk]

Watch out for that tricky route finding above the fifth bolt(!), you can really get into trouble there.

 

Last time I checked, Dancer was a .7. Now get out there and send that cruxy nubbin pullin.

I so got off route almost criedalmost fell had my bellayer take and rested and climbed down to my last bolt 3 times before I was able to make it over that the big thing here is that I DID, I kept climbing even though I was all sketched out

 

you are right it is a .7, SO HARD though

Edited April 6, 2004 by Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer

[dylan_taylor]

Tex,

Gray areas suck, don't they? In the end, we all end up creating our own "definitions". I hate getting all caught up in an arguement about what could be construed as "contrived". The strictest users of the term "onsight" would probably consider an onsight attempt in progress once the climber's feet leave the ground. What you consider the "ground" is up to you. If the route is a 5.11 but there is a 4th class section up to the "real climbing", I think we can all agree that this short scrambly section isn't really part of the route. But again, this is up to you. In the climbing I've done, I've never really had to stop and scratch my head and think about where the "route" really begins. It seems like it's obvious in most places. There's the ground, and there's the route. I only get fussy about using the term "onsight" if it is on a route that is very near my limit. If my limit is usually lld and I "onsight" a 12a, it feels pretty cool. If I "onsight" a 5.8 I don;t spend that much time thinking about it. But if someone else has never climbed as hard as 5.8, and they "onsight" one, that is awsome.

 

And I'm not saying downclimbing is "off bounds" during a redpoint attempt. But downclimbing to the ground during an onsight attempt is.

 

 

Also, handjaming on a sport route isn't "cheating", it's using good technique!

[Alpinfox]

...are you saying that any downclimbing is "off bounds" during a redpoint attempt? The way you make it sound is that if you go up and fondle a few holds before committing you've blown your onsite.

 

 

I agree with Tex (and others) that the "no downclimbing allowed whatsoever" requirement for an "onsight" or "redpoint" is absurd. By extension of that arguement, any downward motion of your body would constitute a failure on the first attempt.

 

For the record, I think this argument is pretty dumb, but here I am adding to it, so I'm dumb too. A wise man (and founder of this website) once said, "everyone on the internet is stupider for having read this thread".

 

My answers:

Yes, Yes, Pink

[Squid]

The whole premise of this thread is lame. Climb for yourself, make your own rules, accept your own definitions. Everyone who disagrees with me is wrong.

[lummox]

is to.

[J_Kirby]

I so got off route almost criedalmost fell had my bellayer take and rested and climbed down to my last bolt 3 times before I was able to make it over that the big thing here is that I DID, I kept climbing even though I was all sketched out

 

you are right it is a .7, SO HARD though

 

Way to go I may make fun, but I seem to remember having trouble with that one myself. Didn't help my state of mind either when I got to the anchors and found both were spinnin free.

[sk]

...are you saying that any downclimbing is "off bounds" during a redpoint attempt? The way you make it sound is that if you go up and fondle a few holds before committing you've blown your onsite.

 

 

I agree with Tex (and others) that the "no downclimbing allowed whatsoever" requirement for an "onsight" or "redpoint" is absurd. By extension of that arguement, any downward motion of your body would constitute a failure on the first attempt.

 

For the record, I think this argument is pretty dumb, but here I am adding to it, so I'm dumb too. A wise man (and founder of this website) once said, "everyone on the internet is stupider for having read this thread".

 

My answers:

Yes, Yes, Pink

No silly down climbing is allowed, just not standing on the ground. you can down climb to the first move if youwant to just don't step on to the ground

[sk]

I so got off route almost criedalmost fell had my bellayer take and rested and climbed down to my last bolt 3 times before I was able to make it over that the big thing here is that I DID, I kept climbing even though I was all sketched out

 

you are right it is a .7, SO HARD though

 

Way to go I may make fun, but I seem to remember having trouble with that one myself. Didn't help my state of mind either when I got to the anchors and found both were spinnin free.

I suck and I know no big btw the bolts have been repalced and they are not spinners anymore

[texplorer]

So what if there's a big ledge a foot off the ground muff? . . . .or what if its a blocky start. That kind of negates your rules.

[sk]

So what if there's a big ledge a foot off the ground muff? . . . .or what if its a blocky start. That kind of negates your rules.

sort of grey area. but to me the grounds is where I can walk away and go to the car, go to an out house to pee take my harness off and walk more than say 3 or 4 feet from the wall you know HORIZOTAL no longer on the wall NOT VERTICAL. sure there are GREAT ledges and they rock and are SO COOL on a route YOU TOUGHT ME to milk my rests but when you can walk away from the climb, you are no longer on the wall.

[sk]

dubble posts suck and I think DFA RULES

Edited April 6, 2004 by Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

None of you all have ever actually been rock climbing, have you? Really, just admit it; it's OK.

 

Really now, how often on a route can you simply reverse a bunch of moves (that you onsighted -- !) and get back to the ground? If you've gotten yourself far enough up something that you're tiring out enough to need a rest, you probably can't climb back down to the ground anyway! Not to mention you're seriously flirting with falling off if you do. Good luck reversing, say, the blank traverse on Up For Grabs, the dyno/lockoff on Toxic, the undercling/reach moves on Blue Light, or the 40 feet of nubbin pimping on Latin Lover. You've got DFA baffled as to how you're going to successfully downclimb through whatever quantity of climbing got you worked in the first place.

[Off_White]

None of you all have ever actually been rock climbing, have you? Really, just admit it; it's OK.

 

good points to be sure.

[scott_harpell]

None of you all have ever actually been rock climbing, have you? Really, just admit it; it's OK.

 

Really now, how often on a route can you simply reverse a bunch of moves (that you onsighted -- !) and get back to the ground? If you've gotten yourself far enough up something that you're tiring out enough to need a rest, you probably can't climb back down to the ground anyway! Not to mention you're seriously flirting with falling off if you do. Good luck reversing, say, the blank traverse on Up For Grabs, the dyno/lockoff on Toxic, the undercling/reach moves on Blue Light, or the 40 feet of nubbin pimping on Latin Lover. You've got DFA baffled as to how you're going to successfully downclimb through whatever quantity of climbing got you worked in the first place.

 

did that on da bone... that shit was pretty intimidating back in the day. wild moves... but I don't really care about this onsight redpoint crap. if i climbed it is a style i feel good about, i climbed it.

[texplorer]

I actually did reverse the undercling moves on blue light . . .3 times but I kept going out to that damned sucker pocket instead of the two half moons. Also DFA, placing trad gear is more taxing than clipping a draw so sometimes it is easier to climb up, get a few placements in, come down and shake out, and then fire through the section without clipping. Kind of the trad version of stick-clipping I guess.

[EWolfe]

None of you all have ever actually been rock climbing, have you? Really, just admit it; it's OK.

 

Really now, how often on a route can you simply reverse a bunch of moves (that you onsighted -- !) and get back to the ground? If you've gotten yourself far enough up something that you're tiring out enough to need a rest, you probably can't climb back down to the ground anyway! Not to mention you're seriously flirting with falling off if you do. Good luck reversing, say, the blank traverse on Up For Grabs, the dyno/lockoff on Toxic, the undercling/reach moves on Blue Light, or the 40 feet of nubbin pimping on Latin Lover. You've got DFA baffled as to how you're going to successfully downclimb through whatever quantity of climbing got you worked in the first place.

 

Hark! I hear the distinctive cry of the SPORT CLIMBER!

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Shut up! Just shut UP!

 

[sk]

I actually did reverse the undercling moves on blue light . . .3 times but I kept going out to that damned sucker pocket instead of the two half moons. Also DFA, placing trad gear is more taxing than clipping a draw so sometimes it is easier to climb up, get a few placements in, come down and shake out, and then fire through the section without clipping. Kind of the trad version of stick-clipping I guess.

isn't stick clipping CHEATING??????

[thelawgoddess]

Kind of the trad version of stick-clipping I guess.

somtimes i use tall people with long arms for this. and along those lines, i think stick-clipping would be akin to pinkpointing.