Dru Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 when someone dies I know I grieve when someone dies in an area I know i want to find out what happened other than that i don't really care. i honestly admit i feel no sorrow or grief for Lambone's buddy with the head injury. too many people die every day in this world - many of them in total pain and agony instead of in a quick clean fall-- for my heart to care about more than a few of them. my $0.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Since I already know Erik and think that he's a good guy my opinion of him doesn't have much to do with his take on this particular issue. As far as regarding/disregarding social morays is in general is concerned, all rules that govern human behavior are "social constructs," so that doesn't seem like a very useful criterion to use when deciding which ones to honor and which ones to disregard. Social constructs that have their origin in consideration for others - such as acknowledging that something must be painful for them and expressing sympathy for them even if you do not share their pain -should be granted a certain measure of respect for many reasons, foremost amongst them being the fact that they are one of the bases upon which a minimally functional society rests. Social constructs that have their origin elsewhere - such as eating crab with a special fork, not wearing white after Labor day et al can be disregarded by virtually everyone without society being any worse of for it, and can thus be tossed at will IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 all rules that govern human behavior are "social constructs," the certain 'behaviors' of a certain culture in mourning is a "social construct" but the universal need for mourning is not. it is innate. if it weren't we would not see this in completely isolated societies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 scott_harpell said: all rules that govern human behavior are "social constructs," the certain 'behaviors' of a certain culture in mourning is a "social construct" but the universal need for mourning is not. it is innate. if it weren't we would not see this in completely isolated societies. That's why I referred to the rules themselves rather than the behaviors that they attempt to address. I think we are in agreement on this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRoark Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 You're a prick. It takes a lot of skill and time-served to be an asshole. I don't think I became a REAL asshole until I was past 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 HRoark said: You're a prick. It takes a lot of skill and time-served to be an asshole. I don't think I became a REAL asshole until I was past 30. I couldn't disagree with Erik - if he says he is an asshole, who am I to argue? Well done, you. Admission is a difficult and important step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jopa Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 scott_harpell said: all rules that govern human behavior are "social constructs," the certain 'behaviors' of a certain culture in mourning is a "social construct" but the universal need for mourning is not. it is innate. if it weren't we would not see this in completely isolated societies. Is it safe to assume that isolated societies have norms that are completely independent of any other? I don't think so. An isolated tribe deep in the Amazonian bush at one time was not in the Amazonian bush; at some point they migrated there from another culture, undoubtedly taking with them some of the characterstics of the culture they left. I'm not convinced that mourning is "innate" as you say. We have really digressed! What was this thread about again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric8 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 yeah your an ass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 I'm not convinced that mourning is "innate" as you say. at the most baisic levels it is. would you be sad if your wife died? yes. as we hashed out earlier, the necessity for mourning is innate, while the methods prescribed to do so are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browntoe98 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 erik said: scott_harpell said: i do not want to die and i certainly do not want to die climbing, so i personally take care in all situations to be as safe as possible. I try to be as safe as possible too, but: 1. While I do not want to die either, I recognize it as inevitable and hope that I die before I get to the point that I do want to die. 2. I can think of only one thing I'd rather be doing when I die than climbing. 3. Assholes are like opinions. Everyone has at least one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 2. I can think of only one thing I'd rather be doing when I die than climbing. but think about how embarassed the sheep would be to be tied to a warm cadaver for hours, days maybe until someone found you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 You just had to trash the thread, Dru. Didn't you? I agree with Roger, Scott and especially Jay. You don't have to share feelings of grief with strangers to show them consideration and recognize they have feelings. As long as there is the remotest chance that what you write may be read by a relative or friend of the deceased, one should show a little sensitivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 AlpineK said: Passive aggressive, yes Asshole, no I take it back...Erik is an asshole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 yes, you are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegetablebelay Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 This thread is a cry out for help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necronomicon Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 vegetablebelay said: This thread is a cry out for help. I'm not listening. :earscoveredwithhands: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 (edited) minx said: scott_harpell said: faq off... he put his foot in his mouth and if you agree with it, you deserve the sme lambasting he got on the other thread. i think one or two people lambasted erik. but it seems that while many of us think erik is an asshole, not so many of us disagree with his view. maybe he's being less tactful than others by stating it but it's obvious he's not the only one thinking it. i prefer that when an accident is close to home (ie. the recent death's at l'worth) that people slow down on their analysis of the details b/c there's a good chance someone "here" might know the deceased. but outside of that, i see nothing wrong w/assessing the situation. haven't we all made stupid mistakes in life when a little more attention to detail would've spared a lot of grief? when climbing, i'm far more concerned with the consequence of my actions resulting in my injury or death than i am some freak act of dog/nature. if you disagree w/erik, explain why. don't post some juvenille innuendo. I love it when I don't even have to type... Well said Minx p.s. I can feel empathy for someones loss with out taking their pain on as my own. Edited October 22, 2003 by Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 erik eats turds - how's that minx? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 For sheer eloquence, trask can't be beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fejas Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Your an Asshole An Asshole Yes your an Asshole An Asshole Your an Asshole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 You're NOT your, goddammit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Several posts talk about the importance of showing respect. I completely agree, and I often wince when I see folks second-guessing what happened in someone else's tragedy or calling someone an idiot or whatever – particularly if I think it likely that family members or friends of the victim are going to read it. However, it always strikes me as odd to see someone who may be hiding behind an avatar in the first place offer condolences to someone who is never going to read this bulletin board, with respect to the loss of a person that the poster never knew and probably has no closer connection with other than the possibility that they will read a write-up in ANAM one day. I find it particularly odd when the person who posts as if he or she is hanging their head in mourning is one of those who spends all day every day insulting people on this bulletin board. Customary or not, these anonymous posts of condolences on the Internet often strike me as an empty exercise that really doesn't have much do with showing respect in any meaningful way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny_destiny Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Ye without sin cast the first stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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