dberdinka Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Even the best TRs on this site are eventually (generally quite quickly) lost among a melie of other posts on..well...just about everything. So here's a proposal. Create a set of forums specifically for TRs. Have a mod delete or move an unrelated post (people will learn quickly). Furthermore set it up so people can only use Graemlins in their responses.. A whole new form of communication, dare I say art?, would evolve on CC.com TR: "My epic ascent of the Toof..I'm so rad"..... TR: "I climbed a nice climb and posted just like Necro likes it" You get the idea. Freedom of expression, a new twist for these sewage strewn threads and less people get offended... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne Posted October 16, 2003 Author Share Posted October 16, 2003 OK, I am from the short-bus of special-ed posters at times.... I need a 5-day time delay for what I write. I would post a bit less for sure, but put more thought I am sure in what I offer the population. I love critisism. Maybe a masocistic thing? Though it now seems irrelevant: Attached is the year I did have , and wont be forgeting any time soon. The best to you all.. P.s. Matt, If I ever need a lawyer... 258122-2003-3.doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 that looks like a lot more than 3 things wayne you are gonna need an XXL t shirt to fit it all on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 extra large shirt for an extra large chest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 fuckin awesome - way to go Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dberdinka Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaphappy Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 mattp said: I don't think it is valid to say "sorry Wayne, but that's the truth." Even if you think his underlying tone WAS pretentious, his route reports are interesting and I'd hate to see him or somebody like him stop posting to the board (though I'd have to say that he seems to be able to tolerate quite a bit of abuse so this may not be a real concern in Wayne's case). When it comes to "well written, interesting trip reports about interesting places done in good style" beauty is in the eye of the beholder and one person's interesting report is another persons snooze-fest or cheast-beat. Not only that, but I don't think someone should have to clear this bar in order to be able to post in the route reports forums without being criticized for it. Also, as Darin notes, even some that reports that might generally be held in this regard draw fire for a variety of reasons -- often related to personal issues that really don't matter to anybody but the immediate involved parties. However, the incidence of flameage in the route resport forum is somewhat of a diversionary topic thrown out by Dru. I stated that I thought it was sad to see folks dog-pile on Wayne once again and I noted that I spoke to people at both ropeup events who said they were unwilling to post to this site because of what they perceive to be a generally high level of acrimony around here. One may argue that Wayne or Allison or Scott or Dan Larson get what they deserve, but I really don't think so. Yes, each one of these people has drawn attention by somehow stepping outside the limits of what we may think is an admirable way to present themselves, but I don't think that merits the kind of flame that these people have received and I would argue that it shows a distinct lack of courage and creativity for someone to jump onto an ongoing bandwagon and bash them just because everyone else is -- even though I will admit that I sometimes find myself laughing out loud at the latest retort or photoshop image that is making fun of somebody for the 100th time. One might also argue that thin-skinned people don't belong on this site or that we shouldn't try to protect them. I don't think it is honest to argue that such people don't exist, however. Lastly, I'd note that there are people around here, myself among them, who just don't like to see all that garbage. In my view, copious amounts of insulting rhetoric just clutter up the board and are kind of like litter thrown about the base of a crag. In case you forgot what we were pokin fun of, here: "Please chestbeat here.. This endless summer season seems finite now. Please fess up here wit the list of your biggest routes that you did this season. If this co-op master-b gets to page 2 or 3, I will post the list of my best year of climbing that I have ever had.(Bait)( Hook?)(Troll...)" This doesn't resemble a trip report. -slap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Slappy- Read my post that you just quoted, and you will see that I am trying to focus not on route reports but on the board as a whole. Then go back and read the thread to see that I am correct where I say in that post that you just quoted that I did not take the thread into a discussion of trip reports. Dru did, when he tried to sidestep my statement that the rancor on this site scares some people away. First I complained about dogpiles, then when people said there was nothing wrong with being obnoxious, I said that I had spoken to people who were pretty much afraid to post to the site and would not at all post a route report. Rather than respond to the comment that they were uncomfortable with the board as a whole, Dru figured he had a better shot at attacking my statement by focussing on the route reports only. When his rebuttal of that narrowed interpretation of my statement was proven incorrect, he fell back to an even narrower position regarding route reports written by newbies. But I was in actual fact quite clearly talking about the entire board, and I don't believe I suggested or meant to imply that the problem is one that only affects newbies. Some of my friends who refuse to post here because of all the rancor are indeed very good climbers with many years' experience. Are you threatened by my statement that there are some people who don't like being flamed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Can't please all the people all the time. I like the crowd here just fine. Consider the lambasting an initiation. Get over your insecurity or go to RC.Com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 BTW, nice list, Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 mattp: my friends WHO ARE VERY GOOD CLIMBERS are scared of all the RANCOR also i dispute your pathetic attempt to claim victory in the jaws of defeat. perhaps I should make my own long winded post "when mattp saw that once again his argument was categorically disproven by Dru, he once again ignotred the obvious and made a long winded post claiming that nonetheless he had proven himself right and Dru wrong" bla bla bla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 ...even though I will admit that I sometimes find myself laughing out loud at the latest retort or photoshop image that is making fun of somebody ... Matt, honestly, right here you have just identified what makes this site different and unique. You think you want to see spray, smart-aleck comments, and criticism reduced here. But those things not only are part and parcel of this site, they are a core theme of this site. You admit to the occasional guilty pleasure of laughing at some of it...I say cut loose and laugh hard! I think that if you spent 1 hour reading nothing but as many of timmy and jon's own posts as you could, then you would come away with an idea of what they enjoy the site for. And a whole lot of their posts are about having a laugh. I would argue that that right there's your best gage of what the site owners really want. What Nathanial Hawthorne story was it where the Dr. had the "perfect" beautiful wife, save for a small birthmark? And the the guy was fixated on removing that one little "blemish"---and killed her in the process. I believe that you're chipping at the core of cc.com...it's what the people want and it ain't broke. Let's leave it as is and enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 girls just wanna have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 RobBob said: You think you want to see spray, smart-aleck comments, and criticism reduced here. But those things not only are part and parcel of this site, they are a core theme of this site. You admit to the occasional guilty pleasure of laughing at some of it...I say cut loose and laugh hard! You misunderstand me here, robbob. You can spray hard in spray, and a significant number of your smart-aleck comments and brilliant critique are going to be tolerated elsewhere on the board, as well. Yes - I think a lot of the stupid rhetoric is just that: stupid. In my view most of the spray posts on this site are niether interesting nor funny - they are pointless one-line retorts, personal complaints related to somebody's private argument, recycled jokes that werent funny in the first place, and just plain empty banter. Go back and look at some spray thread from a month ago and see how interesting it is, outside the immediate context of trying to outdo each other right now this minute. Some folks think it is fun, and that is why we set up the spray forum in the first place and, yes, we allow some of that to creep into the rest of the board because we don't want the site to be "stiff." The problem that I have with all of this is that your exercise of your god-given right to spray is compromising somebody elses right to come onto the board without having to be subjected to that crap. Do you restrain yourself because the "gaper of the day" is someone who doesn't like to be ridiculed? No. Do you hesitate to trash a route report if you think it was written "in poor style" or describes a "pathetic" attempt to climb some "trivial" route? No. The second issue I have with the hostile, mysogynistic, or inane material it is that, for some reason, those who don't like the spray seem to be unable to figure out that they can avoid the food fight if they lurk in the route report forums, the newbies forum, and the rock climbing forum. This is in part because you spray-bots find it fun to constantly test the limits of our patience by pissing in those other forums, but it may also have to do with the format of the front page or just the fact that we have an established culture on this site that pervades the place - a culture where honest discussion is discouraged - even in the climbers' forums - and bravado is what carries the day. We hear so much criticism of of "cheastbeating" but when was the last time that one of the spraylords who ridicules Wayne for being a cheastbeater actually showed any humililty? Like I said, I DO laugh out loud at some of the stuff. I changed the route report forum policies last winter, and last month I was vocal in objecting to Dwayner's filibuster tactics when it comes to bolting discussions -- but don't worry, robbob, I'm not trying to stop you from having fun. If you want to battle it out with dicknose over who can get in the last word about which one of you has a bigger schlong, go for it. But do it in Spray and don't whine if I or somebody else joins your thread to say you are pathetic. Like you keep saying: it's spray, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 it's a proven fact that my schlong is the biggest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 trask said: it's a proven fact that my schlong is the biggest and your brain the smallest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 erik said: trask said: it's a proven fact that my schlong is the biggest and your brain the smallest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necronomicon Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 mattp: thanks for giving me yet another oppurtunity to practice my skimming techniques. This one was tricky, though, because there was no actual content for me to extract.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Necronomicon said: mattp: thanks for giving me yet another oppurtunity to practice my skimming techniques. This one was tricky, though, because there was no actual content for me to extract.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_Pine Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 (edited) dberdinka said: Even the best TRs on this site are eventually (generally quite quickly) lost among a melie of other posts on..well...just about everything. So here's a proposal. Create a set of forums specifically for TRs. Have a mod delete or move an unrelated post (people will learn quickly). Furthermore set it up so people can only use Graemlins in their responses.. I believe the "route report" forums are set up for this. Since last year there is less tolerance for spray in them. Yes, there are more things than just TR's but if you write "TR" as the first two characters in your subject line that would help people identify it as such. There is also that "mambo" feature (does that still exist?) where you can get your "article" placed in the articles section. Unfortunately this requires being seen as a self-important chestbeater ( ) because only the author can mambo their own works. I think? If you do write a cool trip report, please put the name of the climb in the body of the report (not just the title) because I suspect the lame search utility on this site does consider titles. Might try using a couple keywords too. Even better D, you could just save all TR's as text files and put them on your site! For example, see this . ETA: Clarification on the "mambo" thing. It looks like you don't need to be the author to mambo something. I just did it for Strickland's El Cap report. Click the little button to "PUBLISH". Edited October 17, 2003 by Al_Pine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 it may also have to do with the format of the front page or just the fact that we have an established culture on this site that pervades the place matt, it's like you're blindfolded with your hands all over a horse, and continuing to insist it's a cow. In the above statement you have defined what cc.com is. You've listed the front page (designed by the owners!) and the culture of cc.com as encouraging behavior that you don't like...the very heart of cc.com! Obviously one Hell of a lot of climbers do like the format and the culture here, and they are voting with their presence. The tone of my post above wasn't condescending but your reply certainly was. Therefore I will state frankly that I believe that the reason you have the feelings that you do is because you are an elitist. You think that you are superior to those you refer to derisively as "sprayers." You think that your climbing resume gives you the authority to be culture minister around here. You even use the Rumsfeldesque tactic of claiming that some unnamed personal focus group of yours has declared that they are scared of posting here. When some of the rest of us hear from the legions of intimidated climbers who are dissappointed in this site because they are afraid to post, then maybe we will believe you. Until then, most of us remain pretty sure that you are mattp the self-appointed culture minister. By the way, if someone writes a good TR and people enjoy it, who cares what gets posted after the TR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_Pine Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 RobBob said: By the way, if someone writes a good TR and people enjoy it, who cares what gets posted after the TR? The person who posted it dumbass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 same old weak arguments from matt. blah, blah, blah, as boring as Dwayner's bolting issues. horse walks into a bar- bartender says, "why the long face?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_Pine Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 A lot of people have posted in this thread that they enjoy reading TR's. I think a lot of people would prefer that this site retain some climbing content so they can at least fool themselves that they are spending 4 hours/day at something a bit more meaningful than a talk-radio chat board. If you belittle TR's (which noone here admits to doing), or if you belittle the very thought of someone actually wanting to post a trip report of something as lowly as [insert climb that is casual for you here], then you are discouraging further TR's from being posted. That's all. I think people do like TR's. I don't think I'm making that up. I think that if people want more of them, then they have to suffer through the bad ones and try to redirect that oh-so-clever quip to another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necronomicon Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I made the mistake of dating this chick one time, and she turned into a TOTAL PSYCHO. After the last straw, when she told me she was trying to get pregnant to ruin my life, I told her that "She was the shit streak, on my otherwise clean, underwear of summer." This has to be one of my proudest moments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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