scrambler Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 (edited) I have several belay devices including a Trango B-52, which I intended to use on multipitch trad routes in its function for bringing up the second. Several other people who I know also purchased B-52s but eventually they stopped using this device due to their doubts concerning its breaking strength under a load. They still have the B-52s but actively use the Petzl Reverso since it has a more sturdy construction. I think the doubts about the B-52 is mostly perception since this device has undergone extensive testing and is CE certified. Yet, the device does show abrasive wearing on the aluminum where the anchor carabiner is attached. The thickness of the aluminum is estimated to be about 7 mm which will be reduced due to abrasive wearing. This device is lighter than the Reverso, which makes the B-52 great for alpine but it seems that doubts about the B-52's strength will plague it's acceptance over the Reverso. What are your thoughts? Edited September 15, 2003 by scrambler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Ask Beck, he'd know. If you feel uncomfortable with a device, don't use it. I use an ATC. Once problem with the Reverso is the solid retainer loop. When used as an auto-blocker, the blocking biner can snag on the retaining loop and not lock. This is too big a risk for me, so I don't use the device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambler Posted September 15, 2003 Author Share Posted September 15, 2003 The presence of the solid retainer loop is the reason they use the Reverso over the B-52. It gives the Reverso redundancy in strength. The problem with the blocking biner not locking the rope also shows up with the B-52. I suppose for this reason, Trango specifically calls for using a blocking biner that has a round cross section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Have you ever seen, heard, or otherwise became aware of one actually failing? Or seen one worn to the point of serious concern? I agree with the old adage of, if you concerned, don't use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 One problem I have found with the reverso is the metal can get razor-sharp on one side of the opening, so much so that it would seem to be dangerous to use it in the "high friction" mode diagramed in petzl's manual. I guess if you need more friction on rappel, a second biner does the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunglehead Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Just bought a B52, I'll let you know after my vacation. Used a Pyramid for years, and I liked it fine, as well as an ATC, a sticht plate, munter, Grigri.. They all haver their place IMHO. I think whatever you're comfortable with, that's what you should use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 ian brings up point i was, it seems reverso can get very sharp on running edges after as little as less than one season... i was going to say Gigi, but will refrain from whispering "plaquette" anymore, very few here know what a sticht or plaquette can do for climbers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 not even clear if scrambler is clear here. is it wear from the "anchor" or the "brakebar" carabiner? pause a moment, and take a good look at how these belay devices work, the cables do nothing other than keeping them on your rack.... i use a 3mm retainer cord on one of my stitch/rapell belay devices, it's not part of the belay equasion... i'd stick with the body belay, the hip, the boot axe and the munter if you aren't at all clear on how these "devices" operate by adding a bend in the ropes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambler Posted September 15, 2003 Author Share Posted September 15, 2003 Ok, I'm talking about using it in autoblock mode for belaying the second. The wear is on the part of the device where the anchor biner attaches. The situation is a multipitch rock climb, not a glacier climb. You loop the rope through and attach a braking carabiner (w/ oval cross-section) to right side (picture above). A carabiner goes through the left side to attach the belay device to a separate anchor. Do you see that the thickness of the anchor end is about 1 cm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 yes. i was already apraised of this. so, the 1cm of aluminum, this worries you and your climbing buddies? or is it the retaining cable? people have rapped and belayed with a pin on a non locking oval as well as plenty other rather questionable methods, i wouldn't worry too much about the B-52 unless you thought you were going to drop it! and a brake bar carabiner should always be round. You were talking "brake bar" when you said anchor, sorry. I'm still following you, don't worry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambler Posted September 15, 2003 Author Share Posted September 15, 2003 Actually, it's not so much my concern as it is my climbing partners'. I still use my B-52. It's whether they lose faith. All I know is that a device that allows autoblocking while bringing up the second makes rope management much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 the b-52 looks very solid and most of the wear should be in the thicker cross sections of the device if you are catching holds correctly... and gigis let you rig auto block, or not, just like the B-52... my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b-rock Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Snoboy posted this LINK to Trango's B52 FAQ, which addresses concerns about strength (they are 'machined from a 7075-T6 extrusion', not 'forged or stamped from 2000 or 6000 series aluminum') and wear (some words about how the anodizing will wear off but not indicating excess wear). Take that info for what its worth, I don't know shit about aluminum manufacturing. Good info there for lowering a second in autoblock mode, which is the original reason the link was posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambler Posted September 15, 2003 Author Share Posted September 15, 2003 Hmmm...yeah, Trango says that the device is rated at 24 kN. That's sturdy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Parker Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 One thing you should be aware of is that the B-52 needs 2 locking biners for belaying 2 climbers (seconding) in auto-block mode where the reverso still only needs one. That seems a little more complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 David_Parker said: One thing you should be aware of is that the B-52 needs 2 locking biners for belaying 2 climbers (seconding) in auto-block mode where the reverso still only needs one. That seems a little more complicated. Huh? Both need two. One to block the rope, one to clip the device to an anchor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 scrambler said: What are your thoughts? a body belay is lighter than either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Sphinx said: David_Parker said: One thing you should be aware of is that the B-52 needs 2 locking biners for belaying 2 climbers (seconding) in auto-block mode where the reverso still only needs one. That seems a little more complicated. Huh? Both need two. One to block the rope, one to clip the device to an anchor. Make that three for the B-52, (two could be locking, one non) and two for the Reverso. You are supposed to use two biners to clip the B-52 to the anchor when you are using it in autoblock mode with two ropes. Not really complicated, but heavier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 But the reverso is heavier than the B-52 (which looks gay, BTW). I think we should all STFU and go climb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 i have both and personally i like the reverso better. if i'm just doing regular belays and rappels on "skinny" lines i'll use the trango, but for off the anchor belays and two seconds i don't give it a second thought - it's the reverso all the way. the reverso is a sweet device if there ever was one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Trango has revised the design of the B-52. They have lowered and rounded the brake surface to reduce "biner shift" and they have made the metal thicker on the small end (used for clipping to the anchor). It was claimed that the reason for this design change was to provide more surface for the glue bond holding the keeper cable. It should be noted that in the original design, 40% of this metal could be worn away and the device still failed at above 13 kN. Anyway, those who worried about this have less to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 ...but what knots work best??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 BD's making a hybrid Reverso/ATC-XP thingy now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra_Commander Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 I wonder if it brands a BD logo on the rope as it passes through the device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 b-52 is lighter and doesn't get a sharp edge on it, AND handles small ropes, so you don't need to buy a reversino. Therefore, it is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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