Kiwi Posted June 9, 2003 Posted June 9, 2003 (edited) Sure I can always ask the local sale person, but I want to ask 'real people'. How big is your pack? I reckon 4000 in³ would be good enough for a three day Rainier climb. All I know is, don't get more than you need cuz it just means more weight for you to carry. Edit: Bloody hell, wrong units, again! Edited June 9, 2003 by Kiwi Quote
lummox Posted June 9, 2003 Posted June 9, 2003 4k cubic inches is good. 4k cc would be fucking small. Quote
Thinker Posted June 9, 2003 Posted June 9, 2003 Some of it depends on how much stuff you like to strap on the outside. This last weekend on Baker I saw a guy with what must have been about a 2,000 cubic inch external frame pack with a car trunk full of gear strapped all over it. Wish I'd have gotten a photo of it! For the climb you describe I use a 5,000 cu in pack, put almost everything inside, and usually have about 1k cu in to spare. I like that flexibility, though, because the extra is in the lightweight expandable collar or neck of the pack. That flexibility makes it a passable bivy bag for the lower half of my body. I can easily use it as a summit pack (or even on multi pitch rock routes) by taking out the stays and cinching up the compression straps. But that's just me. Jim Nelson would have a COMPLETELY different take. I saw him give a presentation on 'fast and light' that included what he packed for the Ptarmigan Traverse. If I recall it right, his pack was under 25 lbs total. Quote
minx Posted June 9, 2003 Posted June 9, 2003 just a thought that doesn't occur to a lot of the guys. guessing from your avatar that you're a female? Find a pack that fits and is reasonably comfortable. (in the general size range you want) You'd be surprised at how well your gear fits into what you have no matter what size pack that is! Don't get too hung up on a specific #. Quote
Coopah Posted June 10, 2003 Posted June 10, 2003 My pack is a Arc Teryx nozone ~ 3200 cubic inches. Only things outside were fuel bottles, picket, sleeping pad & helmet. Eveything else was in side the pack. Quote
Dustin_B Posted June 10, 2003 Posted June 10, 2003 Coopah said: My pack is a Arc Teryx nozone ~ 3200 cubic inches. Only things outside were fuel bottles, picket, sleeping pad & helmet. Eveything else was in side the pack. Cool, you put your axe inside!! Now that is a versitile pack!! Quote
Bill_Simpkins Posted June 10, 2003 Posted June 10, 2003 Minx is right! You would be suprised what you can fit in a 3000, or even 2200! I usually can get away with a 2200, With the rope under the hood, and crampons and helmet on the outside. For a 5 day winter trip on Rainier, I used a 3000, and weighed 28 lbs. The key is to carry the rope. Talk someone else into carrying the tent. I would rather have a little more weight if the whole package is compact and easy to climb in. So I tend to use my heavier crampons and heavier stove, but they are more compact than my lighter ones. Quote
Fairweather Posted June 10, 2003 Posted June 10, 2003 Three summer days in a (tall) Bora 40, no problemo. Quote
Bill_Simpkins Posted June 10, 2003 Posted June 10, 2003 That's a given. Just carry the axe or use the loops on your pack. Quote
David_Parker Posted June 10, 2003 Posted June 10, 2003 The real answer depends a lot on what YOU need to put in your pack. Some people have very light weight sleeping bags that compress very small. Do you use a tent or bivy sack, what kind of sleeping pad. I suggest you put all the stuff you'll need for a typical climb for 3 days, put it in a duffle and then go stuff a few packs you seem interested in. Most packs will compress, so the trick is to buy one just big enough to carry what you need without going too big so you put more stuff than you Really need into the pack. Quote
Rodchester Posted June 10, 2003 Posted June 10, 2003 I have a 3300 ci pack that carries everything I need for two nights. Which covers most trips here in the Cascades. Trick is to go light and leave the crap behind, and to go light by getting lightweight and compressible gear. Lightweight 30 degree down bag for summer, pocket rocket stove, Bibler tent, aluminum crampons, etc. Going light doesn't mean starving, but good gear without any of the crap that sooo many people carry. So pack right and 3000-4000 pack should do everyhting you need locally. If I were buying pack now I would buy the Lowe Alpine Attack 60 or the ArcTeryz Khamsin 62. Good luck and have fun.... Quote
Dustin_B Posted June 10, 2003 Posted June 10, 2003 I have the ArcTeryz Khamsin 52. It is as big a pack as I need for a 4 day glacier climb. If I'm on a long trip or I need to take more, the helmet, crampons, sleep pad go on the outside. If on a shorter trip or need less, than these items can go inside. Picket, axe, shovel always go on outside. This system works pretty well for me. Quote
Hiromi Posted June 10, 2003 Posted June 10, 2003 Okay, how on earth do you manage 5 days on Rainier with 3000 and 28 lbs?! Please tell me what you have in that pack. I trimmed my pack down as much as I thought possible last weekend and still ended up with 30 lbs without the rope! I really need to get on board with this 'light and fast' thing, but despite my best efforts, remain heavy and slow... Quote
Hiromi Posted June 10, 2003 Posted June 10, 2003 Okay, how on earth do you manage 5 days on Rainier with 3000 and 28 lbs?! Please tell me what you have in that pack. I trimmed my pack down as much as I thought possible last weekend and still ended up with 30 lbs without the rope! I really need to get on board with this 'light and fast' thing, but despite my best efforts, remain heavy and slow... Quote
Bill_Simpkins Posted June 10, 2003 Posted June 10, 2003 (edited) If your down to 30 lbs, don't worry about it. That is pretty good. As long as it is comfy and easy to move in and the balance is good. I would easilt take a slightly heavier setup if it felt good. I don't reccommend doing the below stuff. It works for me though. Be safe with going light. I don't want anyone to get in trouble or ruin their gear because of me. These are just ideas, some are used a lot these days. Little stuff matters. Like webbing and biners. First of all, master rappelling and belaying with a Munter Hitch knot so you can leave your belay device behind. Get a good light locking belay biner that works well with a munter. I use the Petzl Attache. Next, my harness is light as hell. I use a cheap $29 REI one. All my biners other than my locker are BD Neutrinos. I use 9/16 (I think thats it, the super light skinny stuff) tubular webbing for my prussiks. I carry a mammut dyneema sling for my picket and an extra for whatever.I use a normal heavy silver Coyote picket. Next, I cut off all the extra strapping webbing that I never use on my pack, with a couple inches to spare. That pack for Rainier was an old frameless Lowe alpine Walkabout 45. Super light, however I would use a slightly heavier framed pack now. My sleeping bag was a 15 degree synthetic crammed into a compression sack. I also have a fleece sleepingbag that is very lightweight that I can cram between everything for extra warmth. Sometimes in the summer I just use that! I wear all my clothes to bed when its cold. I have a Helly Hanson sythetic Jacket that packs up small. The only other clothing I carry is warm mittens and glove shells. My glove liners and hat go in my Marmot parka pockets that I wear. If it gets too hot I can stuff it all uner the backpack hood. I wear Schoeller Pants and don't carry shells for my legs. I use a getto Coleman Peak 1 stove and have an almost weightless aluminum pot. The stove and fuel bottle both fit in the pot. I took the handle off the pot and use my ice axe pic to manauver it. I cut my sleeping pad, Ridge Rest, down and use my pack and rope for my upper body. My rope is a 30m 8.3 mm Edelweiss. I unrole the toilet paper off the role and role it up real small, about half a roles worth. I use a Petzl Ticca headlamp, fresh batteries, no extras. A far as food goes, I don't cook any hot food. So no Spoon or anything. I usually just buy a whole bunch of those mixed jerky and cheese packs that you get at the minimart, plus some candybars. All the food fits in my upper pouch. I bring a lighter and make sure everyone else has one also. I didn't mention earlier in a previous post that I strap the sleeping pad on the outside. For water I carry a lightweight bladder that holds the equivelent of about two nalgene bottles. I keep it against my back to keep it warm, and when I rest I put some snow into it and the heat from my body helps it melt. On longer breaks can melt water, but I've only had to do this once outside of camp. My crampons and Mittens plus a few extras fit into one of the side pouches, while all the webbing and harness plus other stuff fit into the other. I had strap points added to the pack for my picket and use the sling and a short short velcro strap to secure it. The rope goes underneathe the pack hood. My first aid is minimal but adaquate. Some things in it are half a role of climbing tape, aspirin and an extra contacts for my eyes. After all this stuff I can still have room for my gaitors if I take them off and a few other things. I talk someone else into carrying the tent. I probably left a few things out. But you get the idea. I know I'll probably get some slack for posting this.; however, my partners know me to be very safe and prepared. I was a boy scout. Edited June 10, 2003 by Bill_Simpkins Quote
Ned_Flanders Posted June 10, 2003 Posted June 10, 2003 Hiromi said: I really need to get on board with this 'light and fast' thing, but despite my best efforts, remain heavy and slow... I also like light and slow Quote
Bronco Posted June 11, 2003 Posted June 11, 2003 Bill that looks good, but, you could cut more bulk and weight by leaving your TP at home and using snow balls (yep) and obviously, a down bag would be much lighter and more compressable. On our recent climb of Rainier we each carried about 41-44 lbs out of the parking lot including all of our clothing except the shorts and t-shirts we were hiking in. I think Greg and I both had 2400 CI packs and Bruce had a 3200. Only difference was he could put his sleeping pad inside his where we had the pads on the outside. I think by Sunday morning with all of our technical gear being used and most food eaten, our packs averaged around 15 lbs each, just bivi sacks, sleeping pads and bags, stove and pot, water and food for the day, insulated jacket and misclaneous gear like pocket knife and first aid kit. The smaller the pack the less stuff you'll bring. Quote
Sphinx Posted June 11, 2003 Posted June 11, 2003 BUT if you wanna do technical stuff on the 5 day tour you'll need a big rope, and a big rack, and rock shoes, etc, which will take up space and weight. I've got a 4000ci and a 2500. I use whatever is appropriate. Quote
thelawgoddess Posted June 11, 2003 Posted June 11, 2003 Bronco said: obviously, a down bag would be much lighter and more compressable. scott backes just says NO to down. Quote
Rodchester Posted June 11, 2003 Posted June 11, 2003 For most PNW mountaineers down is just fine....myself included. Being a weekend warrior, USUALLY only out for a few days, and not likely to wait out storms (bail to the bar) down rocks. Further, it lasts soo much longer than synthetic last. I have never had my down bag get soaked, damp a time or two yes, but never soaked. Sure synthetic is great when you are on trips where it may get wet or climbing in the style and in the environment that Backes, Twight, and others climb. I can't, so I don't, so I use down. It rocks, saving weight and space and letting be carry less with a smaller pack. Quote
jjd Posted June 11, 2003 Posted June 11, 2003 I have this monster 6500 cu. in . expedition size pack that I wish I had never bought. I could carry gourmet food, cooking utensils, lounge chair, pillow, double sleeping pads, comfortable camp clothes plus lots of other stuff. Fortuntately, I have no desire to carry all of that crap. I got suckered into thinking "bigger is better" with packs. Now I am stuck with this monster pack that I have yet to even come close to filling to the neck (my top is adjusted as tight as it will go and it still flops a little) and it weighs more than my sleeping bag, my 3 season bivy shelter and my stove with fuel for 4 days! ( I'm too broke to buy a new one). Moral of the story: buy a small light pack, as small as you can get away with. You can always buy/borrow/rent a bigger pack for those long expeditions. Quote
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