Static Point Bolts

[iceclimer]

A freind and I went to static point and climbed a few pitches of Online yesterday. The approach is ruthless but the weather and rock were great.

 

Does anyone happen to know if retro bolting is allowed? Also, can bolts be added to reduce the runouts? The anchor bolts were 1/4" and a lot of the exposed bold had been rusted out. It wasn't just surface rust. I am against over-bolting good routes as I'm sure most of you are. However, I believe the runouts there could seriously injure someone if they were to fall. Especially if one of those rustbombs were to break.

 

Any and all info would be appreciated.

 

Thanks!!

[mneagle]

The rhetorical answer:

 

Replacing old bolts with larger ones by drilling out the old holes is fine but adding new bolts is a big no-no. Climb somewhere else if it's too scary. (Exit 38 e.g.)

[chucK]

Replacing old bolts with new ones is generally looked upon favorably by the climbing community. Adding new bolts to existing, popular climbs (i.e. climbs that many other people do without fretting) is generally looked upon very poorly.

 

If there are not enough bolts at Static Point for you, I would suggest either climbing Lost Charms (gear route) if you want to stay at Static, or perhaps Condomorphine Addiction in Leavenworth. Darrington also sports many predominantly-friction climbs that have brand-spankin' new bomber bolts that are placed very carefully so as to reduce fretting.

[dberdinka]

iceclimer said:

Also, can bolts be added to reduce the runouts?

 

If you don't like the runouts don't climb it! With the diversity climbing areas and routes in the PNW you should have no problems finding climbs that match your risk-threshhold .

 

Furthermore it sounds like you were off route. I recall all the bolts on OnLine being 3/8" and in good condition.

 

Prepare to be flamed!

[Gaston_Lagaffe]

I'm planning on going up there in a couple of weeks to replace questionable bolts on Online and Offline (as time allows). No adding bolts though. I agree that there's a lot of runout, but if the bolts are good then a fall should only result in some bad scrapes. Call me a sissy, but I wear Carhartts , not shorts, just in case I do fuck up. I posted a thread in April looking for people that would be interested in replacing bolts up there with me, and got good responces. Seems there are already guys who are doing good work up there on routes that needed bolts replaced more than Online. That area

 

Cheers

 

 

[iceclimer]

There is a big difference between scary and stupid. I led the pitches without a problem. I'm not concerned for my safety as much as that of someone else's. For instance, there is a flake that has busted off, just above the first pitch anchor. It is about 2 feet wide and 3 or 4 feet tall and probably weighs about 200-300 pounds. How smart is it to climb with the potential of that thing nailing you causing old nasty bolts to break off.

 

The runouts that are currently there are long enough that it is more like soloing than sport climbing. Why not just use pitons and remove the bolts? For that matter, why not remove all the bolts and make it a solo route. Who decides how this is to be done? I see new bolts going up all the time and I don't hear a lot of complaining about it. I'm just trying to get a general concensus.

[iceclimer]

Gaston_Lagaffe said:

I'm planning on going up there in a couple of weeks to replace questionable bolts on Online and Offline (as time allows). No adding bolts though. I agree that there's a lot of runout, but if the bolts are good then a fall should only result in some bad scrapes. Call me a sissy, but I wear Carhartts , not shorts, just in case I do fuck up. I posted a thread in April looking for people that would be interested in replacing bolts up there with me, and got good responces. Seems there are already guys who are doing good work up there on routes that needed bolts replaced more than Online. That area

 

Cheers

 

 

I would be more than happy to lend a hand if you need one. I just don't see falling on old rusty bolts necessary if they can be changed. Let me know if I can help and thanks for a good answer instead of being a dumbass like dberdinka.

[ScottP]

The runouts that are currently there are long enough that it is more like soloing than sport climbing. Why not just use pitons and remove the bolts? For that matter, why not remove all the bolts and make it a solo route. Who decides how this is to be done? I see new bolts going up all the time and I don't hear a lot of complaining about it. I'm just trying to get a general concensus ."

 

It sounds like more than "just" consensus building to me. The consensus is loud and clear:

If you have issues with the runouts, don't do them.

 

 

[Sphinx]

Seems like most people around here are against placing new bolts. On the other hand, if you want to chop some trees down to reduce shade at popular crags, go right ahead, everybody will support it!

[lummox]

Sphinx said:

Seems like most people around here are against placing new bolts. On the other hand, if you want to chop some trees down to reduce shade at popular crags, go right ahead, everybody will support it!

new bolts on a new route are okay.

[Dru]

The runouts that are currently there are long enough that it is more like soloing than sport climbing.

 

Its called "trad". Who told you Static was a sport climbing area

[Mr._Natural]

For that matter, why not remove all the bolts and make it a solo route. Who decides how this is to be done?

the first ascensionist. is this a troll? are you serious?

[chucK]

Sphinx said:

Seems like most people around here are against placing new bolts. On the other hand, if you want to chop some trees down to reduce shade at popular crags, go right ahead, everybody will support it!

 

Sphinx, your post's style seems to be implying that this is some great oxymoron. I don't see it that way at all.

 

The reason many people on this climbing board appear to support both chopping down some trees and not placing new bolts on previously existing routes is to preserve good climbing routes. Adding new protection bolts would degrade the quality of the already veryfine routes at Static as would allowing nature to reclaim Godzilla.

 

I am not taking any stance on the environmental ethics of either of these issues. I'm just pointing out that I don't think the two points are contradictory in terms of climbing.

[Gaston_Lagaffe]

It's mainly because whoever did the FA sets the rule for the climb. If they only needed few bolts, then that's all we get to use too. You can place trad gear on a couple of places, making the runout less. People don't addi bolts to any lines anywhere, for they will only be chopped by someone. However, I climbed Online a couple of times late last year, and I agree that there are bolts that need replcing. As for the loose flake, well, we're climging in an alpine environment up there and you can't start removing all loose rock, or you'd drastically change the route. There will always be certain dangers to alpine climbing, and loose rocks is just one of them.

[Off_White]

I'd guess that route has been climbed well over a thousand times with the bolts right where they are. I haven't done it since they were all 1/4" but as I recall as things get harder the bolts get more frequent. Maybe you're just trolling, but if you really want to sport bolt some slab route I suggest you go find your own area and develop it rather than adding bolts to very popular crags. If you wanna be an artist, go stretch your own damn canvas rather than painting over someone else's. FYI, the bolts on Online were put in on the lead, in one of the first uses of cordless drills that I'm aware of. This was pre Bosch & Hilti days, I think they used some 12v system, but David Whitelaw, who posts here occasionally, could give you a better report on the FA.

 

I'm no anti-bolt warrior, but even I would help fund Retrosaurus to go pull any bolts you added and fill the holes. Sweet Jesus lad, if you see retro-bolts being added to climbs all the time and don't hear any complaining, you must need to have your fingers surgically removed from your ears.

[chucK]

iceclimer said:

There is a big difference between scary and stupid. I led the pitches without a problem. I'm not concerned for my safety as much as that of someone else's. For instance, there is a flake that has busted off, just above the first pitch anchor. It is about 2 feet wide and 3 or 4 feet tall and probably weighs about 200-300 pounds. How smart is it to climb with the potential of that thing nailing you causing old nasty bolts to break off.

 

Dude, if that flake nails you, 1/2" bolts aren't going to ease your pain. I don't see what an exfoliating flake on an exfoliating granite dome has to do with adding bolts to a climb that probably sees at least 50 ascents a year.

[E-rock]

I wholeheartedly agree with Dru on this one. I know many people will disagree and call anything that is bolt-protected a sport climb. But slab climbing (pure friction) is a traditional technique that was established in the 60's and 70's. Many of the classic friction routes in North America were bolted on lead with hand drills in the 70's by TRAD climbers. The run-outs are there because they were necessary to establish the route safely (overbolting would have been dangerous or impossible). Preserving the integrity of the first ascent is considered RULE 1 by slab-climbing afficionados. If people can bolt a 5.10 on lead with a hammer and hiking boots in 1972 then you can climb it with sticky rubber. If not go home.

[Gaston_Lagaffe]

iceclimer said:

Gaston_Lagaffe said:

I'm planning on going up there in a couple of weeks to replace questionable bolts on Online and Offline (as time allows). No adding bolts though. I agree that there's a lot of runout, but if the bolts are good then a fall should only result in some bad scrapes. Call me a sissy, but I wear Carhartts , not shorts, just in case I do fuck up. I posted a thread in April looking for people that would be interested in replacing bolts up there with me, and got good responces. Seems there are already guys who are doing good work up there on routes that needed bolts replaced more than Online. That area

 

Cheers

 

 

I would be more than happy to lend a hand if you need one. I just don't see falling on old rusty bolts necessary if they can be changed. Let me know if I can help and thanks for a good answer instead of being a dumbass like dberdinka.

 

Dude, when I went there last year it was my first exposure to runout slab climbing. I got off route at the beginning of the 5.10 pitch and nearly barfed as I tought about what would happen if my 220 lbs were to fall 15-20 feet right in the face of my belayer, knocking them out, opening the way for me to continue falling and very possibly (that's what I was thinking at least) ripping the anchor out, taking my belayer with me.

[mattp]

I have been involved in replacing old bolts at Static Point for a number of years, and the standard practice has always been to remove an old one and place a new one in exactly the same hole without adding any. There have been exceptions, but on Static Point those exceptions have been rare and that is a good thing. Lots of people actually enjoy leading those runout slabs and, in my view, the climbs there are mostly not dangerous but simply "thought provoking." On Line, in particular, is an area classic that should be left alone. It is the one climb that just about everyone who has ever been up to Static Point has climbed and, while I am not saying it is the best climb on the crag, it is one of the first routes put up there and one that kind of sets the tone of the place.

 

If we want to debate ethics, I think the "first ascensionist" principal is an interesting one. I understand how it has become the accepted standard, but the longer I climb the more I realize that it is not the absolute or unassailable rule that many hold it out to be. If the first ascensionists wanted to come back and retro-bolt the climbs at Static Point with bolts at body-length intervals, would it be OK? Or what if the first ascensionist had been an egotist who set out to make a statement of how bad they were and deliberately established a bunch of death-routes? Or what about this: the pro bolt for the crux moves on Shock Treatment is about 3 feet higher than the logical placement because the leader on the first ascent put in a rivet and stood on it to place a bolt three feet higher. It has been upgraded with a 3/8" bolt now, but wouldn't it have been worth considering to move that bolt back down to where the rivet hole is? To clip the bolt, you have to stop in the middle of the most difficult moves of the entire climb.

[Cpt.Caveman]

I say slam in a bunch of button heads every 3 feet

[chucK]

mattp said:

the pro bolt for the crux moves on Shock Treatment is about 3 feet higher than the logical placement because the leader on the first ascent put in a rivet and stood on it to place a bolt three feet higher. It has been upgraded with a 3/8" bolt now, but wouldn't it have been worth considering to move that bolt back down to where the rivet hole is? To clip the bolt, you have to stop in the middle of the most difficult moves of the entire climb.

 

Mattp, you sure ask a lot of questions.

 

I used that rivet hole as a hold. Are fingernails aid?

[Alex]

iceclimer said:

A freind and I went to static point and climbed a few pitches of Online yesterday. The approach is ruthless but the weather and rock were great.

 

That approach is fairly mild, though, when compared to anything other than Exit 38 or Lower Town Wall.

 

Also, can bolts be added to reduce the runouts? The anchor bolts were 1/4" and a lot of the exposed bold had been rusted out.

 

No, please dont. The runouts are a part of the area and are part of the routes. The initial run-out to the first bolt on the first pitch of Online is actually probably the longest. The climbing is not hard, its mental. If you dont like it, dont climb there. There are plenty of other places for you to climb.

 

The anchor hardware is mixed. The anchors atop the first 2 pitches are quite good. The anchor at the top of the 3rd pitch is OK (1 3/8th, 1 1/4 in, one rusty spinner not part of the anchor), and since you get really good gear 10 ft above the belay, there is little need to beef this anchor up any further. If you are really freaked, you can tension right to easy climbing, then climb back left to place gear. I have climbed this pitch in the rain, its really not that bad. The anchor at the top of the 4th pitch is not partcularly good, and I would love to see the 1/4 bolt here replaced, so that if you fall on the 5.8 to the first bolt on the pitch, the anchor will hold the factor-2 fall. When TimL and I climbed OnLine a few weeks ago, we discussed coming back to do this particular bit of work ourselves.

 

However, I believe the runouts there could seriously injure someone if they were to fall. Especially if one of those rustbombs were to break.

 

Yes, but the potential for serious injury is part of the game at Static. If you want well-protected slab climbing, you should not climb at Static, but you might find Silent Running at Darrington more your speed. Static is NOT SPORT CLIMBING. It is as far away from sport climbing as Index trad routes are. You need good gear placement skills to get up almost all Static Point routes, whether there are bolts or not.

 

I and most others who head up there have alot of fun on these routes and dont find them particularly dangerous (if you think OnLine is runout, wait to you climb Offline!). Please dont add any new bolts.

 

Alex

[Dru]

Cpt.Caveman said:

I say slam in a bunch of button heads every 3 feet

 

 

and wha'dya know but I have a 1/4" bit for my Hitli and 200 vintage buttonheads

[chucK]

Dru said:

Cpt.Caveman said:

I say slam in a bunch of button heads every 3 feet

 

and wha'dya know but I have a 1/4" bit for my Hitli and 200 vintage buttonheads

 

There you go Iceclimer. You got yourself a crew!

[iceclimer]

For those of you who actually gave good ethical answers to my question, thanks!!!!!!!! I agree that things should be left the way they are except for the extremely rusted out anchors. '

 

For those of you who added the typical "rock jock" flair about "don't climb there if you don't like it", you can kiss my ass. You are the ones who give other climbers a bad name by thinking you are better than everyone else. Why not try and help someone understand rather than jump to conclusions and tear them apart. As I stated before, I was information gathering. I understand.

 

Thanks to all of you who were honest and actually took time to help.