AlpineK Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 No fees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leejams Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 ken4ord said: Yeah all this fee stuff is bullshit. Out in NH they had the same thing, of course they don't charge the RV driving, polluting, littering people at thier road side parking lots. Â Ummm I think it was a hoot that they charged all the tourist the toll on I-93 coming up from Boston. And then put a state liquor store at the toll booth. So that is an RV fee if ya kinda look at it that way. Live free or die Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btowle Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 It's kind of amusing with all of the chestbeating that goes on here, that people can't walk another 1/4 mile if they really don't want to pay the fee. Don't park at the nice trailhead. Drive to the trailhead, drop your stuff off and park down the road. The forest is still free, just not the trailhead.. Â As far as vandalism. After my second day of economics, I figured out who pays for this stuff. (Hint: They can print money) Soon the fee will be $50 to pay for all of the signs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 btowle said: It's kind of amusing with all of the chestbeating that goes on here, that people can't walk another 1/4 mile if they really don't want to pay the fee. Don't park at the nice trailhead. Drive to the trailhead, drop your stuff off and park down the road. The forest is still free, just not the trailhead.. Â As far as vandalism. After my second day of economics, I figured out who pays for this stuff. (Hint: They can print money) Soon the fee will be $50 to pay for all of the signs. Â Â baaaaaa baaaaaaaa baaaaaaaaa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 and you can't drive to the trails without paying a tax that gets spent by other beauracracies, food/gas/sales tax to pay the man- Â and a large percent of the trail park pass goes directly back into trail maintence and actual capital improvements projects in the state that sells the pass- i believe it is about 80%... it does not go to buy the tool more radios or bullshizzie. Â If you look at a list of projects completed in Washington state via fee demo funding, it's pretty impressive. you pay, the state or FS gets 80% to fix things up in the woods. it's 30 bucks- forego the stupid titanium spork and buy the park pass, you're doing a GOOD thing. Â on the other hand, I've see two paid state employees handing out the violations at the railroad grade parking area, even though they were the $5 violation notices, it seemed very inneficient to have two people handing out tickets on the clock, vs some trail work or trash pickup. Â and don't forget you pay the man in gas taxes everytime you drive up the icicle road regardless, quit being such cheapass "me me me" people, and look at a larger picture- the feds are giving a lot less money to maintain things nowadays, do you want the tool to just close the roads altogther, because that is one of their options if they don't get funding to keep trailheads open. The mandate of fair use is an impressive argument, but specious. Â grow up people! in a regulated society, payment for use is fair and expected. like someone mentioned earlier, The days of free recreation in the wilderness is over! Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 RESIST  Its all about the revenue stream  If collecting the fees can be made uneconomical, through large scale lack of buy in to the scheme, they will stop.  If everyone plays along they will make it permanent, and then every time they need money for something else, raise the fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 ..and then, our f***** up american republicans will close trailhead access because of a project that is a decade in the making failing. Dru, you're a canook, its a bit fouler here south of the border... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_retard Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 Just pay the permit fee and get it over with you cheap ass retarded Vandalic bastards. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pencil_Pusher Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 Hey Beck, check out the Mountaineers monthly newsletter from two or three months ago. They had an article which stated something about x million dollars from the trail park pass program being spent on... total guess here because I don't remember, fighting fires. BTW, I'm sure everyone was very pleased to see Marymoor Park charging a $1/day parking fee. I think there's a summer pass available for $25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 Beck said: ..and then, our f***** up american republicans will close trailhead access because of a project that is a decade in the making failing. Dru, you're a canook, its a bit fouler here south of the border... Â no see, in BC now they are trying to charge parking fees cause "it works in the States" Â but a couple of years ago, they tried the same thing (making us payfor the remote backcountry Forest Service campsites), there was widespread lack of compliance, and they ended up stopping it because it cost more than they got out of it. they just decided not to maintain em instead. so now you have to bring your own TP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 i declare jihad on the infidel zionist puppets that parade the forested corridors of cascadia. may the ticketwriters scrota seeth with maggots. may their prostrates become cancerous from exposure to the unbelieving radar gun radiation. may their camels teats go dry and their women grow coarse hair in their nether regions. my feelings - as usual - we will slaughter them all. god willing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWolfe Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 lummox said: i declare jihad on the infidel zionist puppets that parade the forested corridors of cascadia. may the ticketwriters scrota seeth with maggots. may their prostrates become cancerous from exposure to the unbelieving radar gun radiation. may their camels teats go dry and their women grow coarse hair in their nether regions. my feelings - as usual - we will slaughter them all. god willing. Â Dammit, Lummox, don't mince words. How do you really feel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence_Sitter Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 Dru said: Beck said: so now you have to bring your own TP. Â $35 or you have to cart in...wait a mintue! isn't that what snoballs are for!?! you just dont get that fresh, cool, casacde wipe sensation with TP... i'll pass on the $35 dollar TP... for that price they should print $20 bills on it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pencil_Pusher Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 [Title 36, Volume 2] [Revised as of July 1, 2002] From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access [CITE: 36CFR261.15] [Page 336] TITLE 36--PARKS, FORESTS, AND PUBLIC PROPERTY CHAPTER II--FOREST SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE PART 261--PROHIBITIONS--Table of Contents Subpart A--General Prohibitions Sec. 261.15 Admission, recreation use and special recreation permit fees. Failing to pay any fee established for admission or entrance to or use of a site, facility, equipment or service furnished by the United States is prohibited. The maximum fine shall not exceed $100. (Sec. 2, 78 Stat. 897, as amended; 16 U.S.C. 460l-6(e)) -------------------------------------------------------- I couldn't find any definitions for the above terms and the revisions appeared all the same since 1998, so it doesn't appear they revised this to incorporate the parking pass. It's a very broad law...  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Beck said: and a large percent of the trail park pass goes directly back into trail maintence and actual capital improvements projects in the state that sells the pass- i believe it is about 80%... it does not go to buy the tool more radios or bullshizzie. Â I thought the 80% went to improvements on the very site at which the fees were collected. After some point, that doesn't make any sense. If you've already got a nice composting toilet at the trailhead and it only costs $5000/year to keep it up, what are you going to do with the extra $5000 that you have to spend at the site? Like any good bureaucrat who wants to keep his budget intact, you'll spend it whether you need to or not. Perhaps you'll suggest the road get widened or graded to let RVs up there, or add other unnecessary "improvements". Â I wouldn't want my fee money to go toward unnecessary improvements that could, in fact, create more user impact by attracting commercial interests, RVers, or wilderness-lite enthusiasts (aka car campers). I just want trail maintenance and the occasional fresh roll of TP in the shitter. Fees don't go down when all that's been funded, so why should I pay for services in excess of what I use, if the goal is a use-based system? Â On the other hand, I'm happy to pay taxes, where I know even less about how the money is spent, if it means that public lands stay publically, "freely" accessible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 (edited) have any of you people noticed how immaculately the trailhead restrooms and roads are maintained along the Mountain Loop Hiway? you could bring a mother-in-law camping out there and she wouldn't object... or the recent improvments to the staircase area in the olympics? Ashael Curtis area in Snoq pass also, etc...  there are also hundreds of trailheads in washington state that DON'T require trail park passes.. and the handy quarter mile rule if you're truly a dirtbag climber and can't afford it   Edited June 23, 2003 by Beck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Were should you park for the Blue Lake Trailhead if you are too poor to afford the pass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jja Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Beck said: have any of you people noticed how immaculately the trailhead restrooms and roads are maintained along the Mountain Loop Hiway? you could bring a mother-in-law camping out there and she wouldn't object... So if I promise to bring my own toilet paper, will you pay my ticket for me Beck? Â Â Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 so are you going to pay it? what would happen if you ignored it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 i didn't park at the trailhead pass required parking area without a trail parks pass, you figure it out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jja Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 iain said: so are you going to pay it? what would happen if you ignored it? I'm a wuss .. I'll pay it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfort Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 michael_layton said: Were should you park for the Blue Lake Trailhead if you are too poor to afford the pass? Â Or for that matter, Cascade River road, where - conveniently - the whole road is considered a "trailhead". Â Keep paying Beck, maybe one day we'll get a nice big outhouse with TP at the boston basin trailhead, like the one they put at the Eldo TH (this is our Natural Legacy, you know). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jja Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Beck said: i didn't park at the trailhead pass required parking area without a trail parks pass, you figure it out.... Actually I had a pass .. left it in the glove box, smart huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 The Forest Service wants people's input on how they spend the money. Send them letters telling them what projects you think are important. I for one would like to see more spent on trail maintenance, mainly erosion control and the clearing of fallen logs. Â If you really want to have an even greater impact, circulate a petition at Pub Club. Send it to the District Manager. Send a copy to our congressional delegation. That would get their attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 jja said: Beck said: i didn't park at the trailhead pass required parking area without a trail parks pass, you figure it out.... Actually I had a pass .. left it in the glove box, smart huh? Â Aren't you even going to try to tell the truth and get out of paying the fine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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