DPS Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 In another thread ehmmic received a lot of flak for placing a couple of pins on Green Dragon. Ignoring the hyperbole and posturing that characterized many of the posts, it should be pointed out that she did not use the pins for upward progress, but as anchors to facilitate a safe retreat. Leaving pins is far better style than to have a catastrophic anchor failure. One can argue that she could have used clean gear, but unless you were there you don't have the right to judge. Life and limb is far more valuable than some nebulous 'route quality', especially on a route that goes clean only because of previous nailing. Am I the only one that finds irony in the fact that Lambone, ehmmic’s most vociferous critic, made a (rather large) judgement error on Glacier Peak that eventually precipitated the use of a cell phone and involved a large scale rescue effort? I see a parallel between pitons and cell phones; if you bring either and get into trouble you will use them. The thing is, ehmmic retreated under her own power and endangered no one else’s life. No lawmaker is ever likely to point at a couple of pins in the rock and use that as an argument to institute fees for climbing rescues. Leaving the pitons did not reflect poorly upon the climbing community. If the next party to climb Green Dragon has any character at all, they will clean the gear and return it to ehmmic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 danielpatricksmith said: Am I the only one that finds irony in the fact that Lambone, ehmmic?s most vociferous critic, made a (rather large) judgement error on Glacier Peak that eventually precipitated the use of a cell phone and involved a large scale rescue effort? Give me a fucking break Dan, don't contort the truth to fit your arguement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figger_Eight Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 I agree. She's back to talk about it, and that's the important part. He who doesn't have shit on their shoes may walk on the white carpet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 A pin per year will not do much damage. Here's to Ehmmic for getting down safely . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted April 25, 2003 Author Share Posted April 25, 2003 (edited) Jon, Give me a fucking break Dan, don't contort the truth to fit your arguement. Did I get the facts wrong? Please tell me what part of my statement is incorrect. What is the truth? I would like to add that I never critisized Lambone'd decision, I just saw irony in it. Edited April 25, 2003 by danielpatricksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 there is no truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Except for what DPS is saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Nobody will argue that michelle getting getting down safe is a bad outcome. Most of the criticism was about getting in over her head which then required the use of pins. I think given the direct choice of catastrophic anchor failure and death, most people will pound a pin. But, that's not really the argument, is it? Notably, Lambone knew who placed the pins but didn't do any name calling (initially). If you want to know the details on his rescue, why don't you ask him yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 glen said: Notably, Lambone knew who placed the pins but didn't do any name calling (initially). notably why? because it turns the whole issue into a cowardly troll? uh huh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 glen said: If you want to know the details on his rescue, why don't you ask him yourself? No need: Rescue TR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 sitmos like this is why i profess a solid foundation of any type of climbing. to be able to asses what you can and cannot do, b4 getting in over your head. certainly an arguement can be that is what crags are for is to hone your skillz and ability so that you may go to the bigger ranges and return home safely and successfully. that is why everyone with big stone asperrations needs to climb climb climb climb climb. know what you can and cannot do.. personally i do not think that green drag-on in the rain is the best place to learn these skillz as it does present some quirky abilites to overcome the difficulties. the only way to get better is to lead lead lead lead lead lead lead. top roping and cleaning and the such serves only for a minor step in the learning proces as one only gains their lead head through leading. leaves your pins at home! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted April 25, 2003 Author Share Posted April 25, 2003 leaves your pins at home! And your cell phones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 If you wanna give her shit for poor judgement in starting up in the first place, fine, but DPS, is right, life is more important than pounding a pin in some sacred crack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 you all are confusing life endangerment with pucker factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 fern said: glen said: Notably, Lambone knew who placed the pins but didn't do any name calling (initially). notably why? because it turns the whole issue into a cowardly troll? uh huh. Well, actually he did do a bunch of namecalling, calling the "anonymous" nailor a bunch of nasty shit even though he knew it was ehmic. Then she steps forward and volunteers information. Folks should state their opinions once and get off their fucking high horse and her fucking back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COL._Von_Spanker Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 lummox said: you all are confusing life endangerment with pucker factor. Wow, were you there? I don't remember seeing you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CascadeClimber Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 It's pretty darn easy to armchair quarterback someone else's decisions. Some of us are starting to sound an awful lot like Jon "Blame Everyone Else" Krakauer. You can't judge conditions from below: "What is above knows what is below, but what is below does not know what is above." (Daumel) And to continue with quotes, "The worst possible style is to fall." (Serl or McKay) So in my book, kudos to Michelle for retreating safely before someone was hurt and/or a serious epic ensued. -L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COL._Von_Spanker Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Winter said: fern said: glen said: Notably, Lambone knew who placed the pins but didn't do any name calling (initially). notably why? because it turns the whole issue into a cowardly troll? uh huh. Well, actually he did do a bunch of namecalling, calling the "anonymous" nailor a bunch of nasty shit even though he knew it was ehmic. Then she steps forward and volunteers information. Folks should state their opinions once and get off their fucking high horse and her fucking back. Exacty why I started talking shit in the first place... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 lummox said: you all are confusing life endangerment with pucker factor. That's an easy thing to do. Do you climb much Lummox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 chucK said: lummox said: you all are confusing life endangerment with pucker factor. That's an easy thing to do. Do you climb much Lummox? He was on the cover of Rock and Ice......... Back on track: I have noticed that Lambone tends to think he's God. After all, he has climbed such noted routes as the North Face of Chair, Icy BC, and has even climbed in Yosemite!! PLUS he's a MODERATOR, so he must feel pretty important. Right about now, he'll come online, start spewing, and tell me to STFU, etc, etc, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth_Man Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 A couple of pins in GD so what's the fricken deal. When you 'oh my god it's a pinner' heads can assure me that you will never reproduce, drive cars, poop in the forest, put bolts on topropable routes, clean cracks, or any number of other high impact activities then I'll take you seriously until then you're full of it and need to get a life. Shit you act as if making that one section of rock just a little easier is somehow the end of the world. Me thinks maybe you've all got to find something else to climb and get over it. Pins are not an issue; crowding, bolts, trails, and parking are the issues. You don't like impact take it up with the mounties and the hordes of boulderers, or better yet stay home and climb in the gym. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Sphinx said: chucK said: lummox said: you all are confusing life endangerment with pucker factor. That's an easy thing to do. Do you climb much Lummox? He was on the cover of Rock and Ice......... im a poster child alreight. and i get puckered just crossing the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek_the_Greek Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 What Sloth man said, although maybe a bit more politely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 I think this issue is becoming too objective. If you personally know the participants involved in this incident, including their climbing strengths and weeknesses, I imagine many people's opinions might be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necronomicon Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 He was on the cover of Rock and Ice......... Oh, well, then, hey, wow, gee, whoa, huh, must be a GOOD CLIMBER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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