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In defense of nailing Green Dragon


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In another thread ehmmic received a lot of flak for placing a couple of pins on Green Dragon. Ignoring the hyperbole and posturing that characterized many of the posts, it should be pointed out that she did not use the pins for upward progress, but as anchors to facilitate a safe retreat.

 

Leaving pins is far better style than to have a catastrophic anchor failure. One can argue that she could have used clean gear, but unless you were there you don't have the right to judge. Life and limb is far more valuable than some nebulous 'route quality', especially on a route that goes clean only because of previous nailing.

 

Am I the only one that finds irony in the fact that Lambone, ehmmic’s most vociferous critic, made a (rather large) judgement error on Glacier Peak that eventually precipitated the use of a cell phone and involved a large scale rescue effort?

 

I see a parallel between pitons and cell phones; if you bring either and get into trouble you will use them. The thing is, ehmmic retreated under her own power and endangered no one else’s life. No lawmaker is ever likely to point at a couple of pins in the rock and use that as an argument to institute fees for climbing rescues. Leaving the pitons did not reflect poorly upon the climbing community.

 

If the next party to climb Green Dragon has any character at all, they will clean the gear and return it to ehmmic.

 

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danielpatricksmith said:

Am I the only one that finds irony in the fact that Lambone, ehmmic?s most vociferous critic, made a (rather large) judgement error on Glacier Peak that eventually precipitated the use of a cell phone and involved a large scale rescue effort?

 

Give me a fucking break Dan, don't contort the truth to fit your arguement.

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Jon,

 

Give me a fucking break Dan, don't contort the truth to fit your arguement.

 

Did I get the facts wrong? Please tell me what part of my statement is incorrect. What is the truth? I would like to add that I never critisized Lambone'd decision, I just saw irony in it.

 

 

Edited by danielpatricksmith
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Nobody will argue that michelle getting getting down safe is a bad outcome. Most of the criticism was about getting in over her head which then required the use of pins. I think given the direct choice of catastrophic anchor failure and death, most people will pound a pin. But, that's not really the argument, is it? Notably, Lambone knew who placed the pins but didn't do any name calling (initially). If you want to know the details on his rescue, why don't you ask him yourself?

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sitmos like this is why i profess a solid foundation of any type of climbing. to be able to asses what you can and cannot do, b4 getting in over your head.

 

certainly an arguement can be that is what crags are for is to hone your skillz and ability so that you may go to the bigger ranges and return home safely and successfully.

 

that is why everyone with big stone asperrations needs to climb climb climb climb climb.

 

know what you can and cannot do..

 

personally i do not think that green drag-on in the rain is the best place to learn these skillz as it does present some quirky abilites to overcome the difficulties.

 

the only way to get better is to lead lead lead lead lead lead lead. top roping and cleaning and the such serves only for a minor step in the learning proces as one only gains their lead head through leading.

 

leaves your pins at home!

 

 

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fern said:

glen said:

Notably, Lambone knew who placed the pins but didn't do any name calling (initially).

 

notably why? because it turns the whole issue into a cowardly troll? uh huh.

 

Well, actually he did do a bunch of namecalling, calling the "anonymous" nailor a bunch of nasty shit even though he knew it was ehmic. Then she steps forward and volunteers information. Folks should state their opinions once and get off their fucking high horse and her fucking back.

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It's pretty darn easy to armchair quarterback someone else's decisions. Some of us are starting to sound an awful lot like Jon "Blame Everyone Else" Krakauer.

 

You can't judge conditions from below: "What is above knows what is below, but what is below does not know what is above." (Daumel)

 

And to continue with quotes, "The worst possible style is to fall." (Serl or McKay)

 

So in my book, kudos to Michelle for retreating safely before someone was hurt and/or a serious epic ensued.

 

-L

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Winter said:

fern said:

glen said:

Notably, Lambone knew who placed the pins but didn't do any name calling (initially).

 

notably why? because it turns the whole issue into a cowardly troll? uh huh.

 

Well, actually he did do a bunch of namecalling, calling the "anonymous" nailor a bunch of nasty shit even though he knew it was ehmic. Then she steps forward and volunteers information. Folks should state their opinions once and get off their fucking high horse and her fucking back.

 

Exacty why I started talking shit in the first place... the_finger.gif

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chucK said:

lummox said:

you all are confusing life endangerment with pucker factor.

That's an easy thing to do. Do you climb much Lummox?

He was on the cover of Rock and Ice.........

 

Back on track: I have noticed that Lambone tends to think he's God. After all, he has climbed such noted routes as the North Face of Chair, Icy BC, and has even climbed in Yosemite!! PLUS he's a MODERATOR, so he must feel pretty important. Right about now, he'll come online, start spewing, and tell me to STFU, etc, etc, etc. wave.gifrolleyes.gifrolleyes.gif

 

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A couple of pins in GD so what's the fricken deal.

 

When you 'oh my god it's a pinner' heads can assure me that you will never reproduce, drive cars, poop in the forest, put bolts on topropable routes, clean cracks, or any number of other high impact activities then I'll take you seriously until then you're full of it and need to get a life.

 

Shit you act as if making that one section of rock just a little easier is somehow the end of the world. Me thinks maybe you've all got to find something else to climb and get over it.

 

Pins are not an issue; crowding, bolts, trails, and parking are the issues. You don't like impact take it up with the mounties and the hordes of boulderers, or better yet stay home and climb in the gym.

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Sphinx said:

chucK said:

lummox said:

you all are confusing life endangerment with pucker factor.

That's an easy thing to do. Do you climb much Lummox?

He was on the cover of Rock and Ice.........

im a poster child alreight. and i get puckered just crossing the street.

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