Bill_Simpkins Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 I dropped a BD neutrino from about 30 feet onto sandstone yesterday. It bounced around a few times. Looks solid under inspection. The neutrinos are pretty light, I can't imagine them hitting with much force. I know a life is more important than 8 bucks, but if its good, I would hate to toss it. What would you do?pretend it never happenedmark it and use it for my waterbottleits junk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COL._Von_Spanker Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Use it as a keychain so everyone knows you are a climber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Neutrinos make great nose rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtwigle Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Two words “hairline fractures” Aluminum soft –rock hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Don't you put a HELL of a lot more force on a biner during a fall? Would you stop using a biner because you fell on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 cracked said: Don't you put a HELL of a lot more force on a biner during a fall? Would you stop using a biner because you fell on it? Um...yeah, total force is bigger, total point loading is not bigger... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Andrew Maclean of BD tested a bunch of biners, dropped and found at the base of ElCap, etc... The batch came out the same as a regular batch. Three sigma blah blah blah - if you don't count the ones with obvious visible damage. I don't have a reference to the results, this is the best of my memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 RuMR said: cracked said: Don't you put a HELL of a lot more force on a biner during a fall? Would you stop using a biner because you fell on it? Um...yeah, total force is bigger, total point loading is not bigger... I guess that would depend what it was clipped to. Imagine the biner clipped to a bolt, so that the loading is only on the biner along the thickness of the hanger. I bet in a fall, the max local stress on the biner would be pretty high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 what looks better, the dropped biner, or the biner currently on the business end of your funkness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrosaurus Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 You can send it to me and I will put it on my rack and "test" it for the next 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana_Climber Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 There's been a lot of controversy over this issue. The idea of hairline fractures is bogus with the current materials for carabiners. It was much more of a problem with the old steel biners. Those are susceptible to hairline fractures and showed up under x-ray. Aluminum either dings, remains intact, or shears. If you don't see any visible deformities upon close inspection then I wouldn't worry about it. The only carabiner I've actually had to retire was a BD Hotwire. I took a 40' clean aid fall on it which happened to also get cross-loaded. The sight of the gate bent open 20' below the piece was more horrifying than the fall. I keep it as a reminder so now everytime I unclip my water bottle from it I remember my luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Simpkins Posted March 11, 2003 Author Share Posted March 11, 2003 Thanks for your opinions. Good info Montana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 snoboy said: Andrew Maclean of BD tested a bunch of biners, dropped and found at the base of ElCap, etc... The batch came out the same as a regular batch. Three sigma blah blah blah - if you don't count the ones with obvious visible damage. I don't have a reference to the results, this is the best of my memory. I believe Chris Harmston was the one who did the testing. I agree with your memory of this testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinker Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 depends, I use some dropped biners for bail biners when I get my sorry ass on a sprot route that's too hard for me.....keep em on my chalk bag until I need em. I dropped one off Outerspace a few pitches up (along with the waterbottle it was attached to) a couple of years ago. The exploding water bottle was cool to see....scared the hell out of the goats. The biner looks undamaged, but that one's staying at home permanently...just don't trust if for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Half my gear was scarfed from the Glacier Point Apron , Index, and Joshua Tree. I have never had a biner break on me. And I'm a fat boy (210). Longest winger was about 20 feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbcracken Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Bailer Biner... -Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimL Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 This kind of falls along the same lines but a couple months ago I was hammering a pin into some alpine choss, clipped carabiner/sling to it, decided I wanted to smack a couple more times for good measures and accidently smacked the carabiner a couple times with my ice hammer. After inspecting it later I noticed a couple dings. I think its fine to use but what would other people do? Retire it? Use it as a bail biner? Has anyone actually had a carabiner fail or break in a fall and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Apparently Goran Kropp did if I remember that incident correctly, but details seem to remain hazy on that one. It's funny how climbers make these decisions. Hmm...looks scratched up but not too scratched up...it's a go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 iain you've cilmbed with my rack..... suprised you survived! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Simpkins Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 Bailer Biner... Just use the sling recovery method. Don't leave anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 web.mit.edu/16.62X/www/Okal_Marianne_622.pdf web.mit.edu/16.62X/www/Graham_Jon_622.pdf aluminum fatigues to failure under cyclical loading. The higher the load the fewer cycles needed to fail, the lower the force the more cycles needed. There is no lower stress limit. These people found that applying a load similar to a 220lb person taking a factor 2 fall they needed at a minimum close to 200 cycles to break a closed biner. new carabiners break, old carabiners break ... it's all sketchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 so retire those biners after you have taken 190 factor 2 falls on them...that is called margin of safety Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin_B Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Bill_Simpkins said: Bailer Biner... Just use the sling recovery method. Don't leave anything. Thats assuming you are not more than 1/3 the rope length up the pitch and that you are on a sport route. Otherwise you half to leave something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Simpkins Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 right ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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