allthumbs Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Apparently our intelligence agencies SUCK and we are starting to look like a real bunch of morons. I say it is time to bring our troops home NOW and cut our losses, before we try to save face and end up getting a bunch of good people killed needlessly. If Saddam is doing what everyone says it will show up in time. I would also like to see how long the inspection teams stay in Iraq after we would announce our withdrawal.....I am NOT a happy camper. We have just about totally fucked this up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To_The_Top Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Are you trolling? What do you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted February 21, 2003 Author Share Posted February 21, 2003 Watch the news. Apparently the UN inspectors have been bitching that the Intel we have been giving them is BS, old, or just bad. I am beginning to suspect what is happening is the same thing that we’ve seen happen in the Army when leaders wanted Intel to be the way they wanted it to be. In other words, the Emperor has no clothes. It is real easy to come to bullshit conclusions in Intel - especially if there is only a single source of information. What I am saying is that Bush wants this war so bad that people around him are afraid to tell him the truth so they make shit up to please him. For the same reason I question why Chirac doesn't want it so bad, I question why Bush does want it so bad. I think we need to get the hell out now. If we have to impeach Bush AND Cheney then so be it. I think some of you out there WANT to believe this shit because you don't want to believe that your government would lie to you, number one, and number two - you don't want to believe that your president would put soldiers in harm's way because of a personal vendetta. But I am afraid that is JUST what this is. We need to execute the war on terrorism not the war on Iraq. You want to get rid of governments that support AL Quaeda - get rid of the goddamn Saud family in Arabia!!! I'm fed up folks. I believed the bullshit until today. Yeah - you want to be patriotic and support the troops - well the best way to do that is to end this bullshit full-speed ahead, damn the torpedoes mentality of this president and bring our soldiers home. To me THAT is being patriotic. That's what the hell I am talking about. And yes - I am pissed. At my president and my government for getting us into this stupid situation. Now they need to get us out of it. I'll be damned if I would pay Turkey $20 BILLION dollars to use their dumb ass bases!!! Let's get a grip. DAMN I'M MAD!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Apparently trask saw Frontline last night. Apparently the UN inspectors have been ground-truthing the US intelligence on Iraq and have come to the conclusion that it is total crap. Yes, it may very well turn into a desert Vietnam. It is a very scary and volatile situation. It is interesting that that the brits are following along despite the lack of support from the country. So much for hte concept of representative gov't. Apparently, the only person in the uK less popular than blair is dubya when it comes to the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 trask, i'm stunned i didn't think you had it in you. i couldn't agree. i admit to waivering on this topic but i find the UN inspectors remarks really compelling. i was about to post something of a similar nature. I had a conversation w/someone last night about the potential war and colin powell's address to the UN. She said that she thought it was persuasive even after i pointed out that the truth was stretched many times in that speech. She believes that we never know the whole truth and we should just shut up and trust the people in power. That terrifies me. How can you just blindly accept that the gov't is right? I sort of see the history/beginnings of this country rooted in the questioning of authority. The remarks by the UN inspectors furthers my belief that our president really needs to put forth more information and answer some of the questions being asked. Further, he needs to be willing to consider well supported opinions that differ from his or this really could turn into the desert vietnam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted February 21, 2003 Author Share Posted February 21, 2003 minx, my reversal on the war is a culmination of things and what I heard today put me over the top. I have had my suspicions (or however the hell you spell it) and it is something that a good buddy and I have talked about at length. Now I will tell you that my buddy is somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun, but he said this from day one - that it was a vendetta. I have immense respect for Colin Powell. He remembers where he came from, he is intelligent as hell, he understands how things can get screwed up and he knows how to unscrew them. I will remind you of his reluctance at the beginning of this thing. He is as privy to Intel as is the President. He gets the same briefings, reads the same Black Book. Colin Powell the man dissented at the beginning. That is his leadership and follower ship style (I am a firm believer that in order to be a good leader you have to first be a good follower). He says what he thinks. But once HIS leader has made the decision, he supports it as if it were his own. No dissention; nothing but support. That is why I think he is biting his tongue and he is supporting the President. Because that was what kind of officer he was. I am sure that he takes the President to task privately whenever he can. But publicly he totally supports the President. So having said that, I am very, very concerned that this is a vendetta. So with all my suspicions and then this comment by UN inspectors saying that the Intel they were getting from the US was bad and had them chasing all over Iraq after phantoms, I realized that maybe some of it - I won't outright say it was fabricated but the question is in the back of my mind - wasn't good Intel. That some of it IS questionable. I could only tell you if I had access to the source information - which obviously I don't. We’ve seen operations go south because some Intel weenie didn't want to say the unpopular thing. Does Saddam have chemical weapons? No doubt. Does he have biological weapons? Maybe - they are expensive to produce and hard to control. Does he have nukes? He is working on it, but I doubt if he has them. This is what I think we need to do - 1. Bring the troops home. 2. See what effect that has on the inspection effort - I'm sure Saddam will throw them out as soon as the threat to him is over. 3. Dust off the SR-71 and put it back into service over flying Iraq and Syria at random intervals. Yeah it is expensive to operate, but so is keeping 120,000 troops in the desert. Using their flight schedules and minimizing operations while they are overhead can defeat satellites. SR-71s are one of the first stealth technology birds and can fly way above the limit of any air defense weapon and can out fly any missile. And they have great sensors!!! 4. We need to get back to the old school of Intel - three sided - SIGINT (which is communications and electronic sigs), IMINT (imagery), and HUMINT (human intelligence). Never trust one source. We are so sensor driven right now it is scary. And sensors can be beaten - deceived. 5. While Iraq's guard is down we build a case. 6. Meanwhile we wage war against terrorism. We are way too caught up in the emotionalism of all this. We need to back off, take a deep breath, and use our brains not our brawn. (Geez - I never thought I'd day that!! trask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Trask, have you been not drinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necronomicon Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Online sources? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 TRASK FOR PRESIDENT!!!! (just think of the nookie possibilites ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 late night comedians would be in heaven if trask were pres! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregm Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Necronomicon said: Online sources? frontline website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 UN inspectors report of Feb 17th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregm Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 minx said: She believes that we never know the whole truth and we should just shut up and trust the people in power. tell your friend the entirety of history has been committed by the people in power - wars, genocide, trail park fees, the works. or just tell her she's an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 We are way too caught up in the emotionalism of all this. We need to back off, take a deep breath, and use our brains not our brawn. Speak for yourself. Also, --to quote Ann Landers-- "wake up and smell the coffee": Saddam is going down one way, or another. Get out the lemon juicer, whiner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 it's my mom....i can't say that! we just reached are usual "we shouldn't talk about this stuff" agreement. i think she took it personally last time i told her that she's an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted February 21, 2003 Author Share Posted February 21, 2003 freeclimb9 said: We are way too caught up in the emotionalism of all this. We need to back off, take a deep breath, and use our brains not our brawn. Speak for yourself. Also, --to quote Ann Landers-- "wake up and smell the coffee": Saddam is going down one way, or another. Get out the lemon juicer, whiner. Say what you want about me dude, I knew I'd get flamed. I'm still a strong conservative, not a whiner, and very patriotic. I just can't support Bush on this Iraq situation any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 trask said: freeclimb9 said: We are way too caught up in the emotionalism of all this. We need to back off, take a deep breath, and use our brains not our brawn. Speak for yourself. Also, --to quote Ann Landers-- "wake up and smell the coffee": Saddam is going down one way, or another. Get out the lemon juicer, whiner. Say what you want about me dude, I knew I'd get flamed. I'm still a strong conservative, not a whiner, and very patriotic. I just can't support Bush on this Iraq situation any more. How about supporting the Iraqi people? Or would you prefer to let them fester for another decade, or longer (Uday's on deck)? I could give a fuck what Shrub's motivations are as long as the wrong created by his father (i.e. not finishing the job) is righted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Unfortunately Bush is a spoiled little bitch who won't admit when he's wrong. He put all his cards on catching Saddam red handed, and when he didn't he'd rather destroy the US reputation and economy by proceding with an unnecessary war. Just like when he got his daddy to get him out of Vietnam and into the Texan Air National Guard - which he didn't even show up for! -I don't have anything against conservatives, just Bush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 I'm pretty convinced Bush has little to do with any decisions being made at this point. I think that was some good objective analysis of the situation Trask, even though we are pathetically uninformed about what is really going on over there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Buck up, trask. Have a casual read of Saddam's human rights abuses, and get your mind straight. Mofo needs to out of power and playing hide-the-soap with Milosevic in Brussels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 I have been hearing "vendetta" from my best friend for weeks. And I am afraid she and trask may be on to something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted February 21, 2003 Author Share Posted February 21, 2003 freeclimb, I hate that fucker Saddam and what he's doing to his country. I swear to GOD I'd kill him with zeal MYSELF if he ever got in my sights. He MUST go. But in my opinion, an invasion from the U.S. isn't the way to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer said: I have been hearing "vendetta" from my best friend for weeks. And I am afraid she and trask may be on something. cough syrup brings on heavy bouts of dillusonal thinking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 cough syrup's not available in eugene it's all being used to farm ephedrine for meth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 You guys should check out the Frontline link that GregM posted above. There are bigger fish to fry than Hussein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.