This place is like Monte Cristo

[CascadeClimber]

Or maybe Static Point since they closed the road...

As someone who was here from almost the beginning, it's stunning to me that it's Tuesday evening and not a single post been made on this part of the board or in the Route Reports sections in days. In its heyday, this was *the* place to check on Monday to see who'd done what the previous weekend. Zero posts about weekend hijinks on Tuesday would have been inconceivable.

I know Facebook and other social media has taken a bite out of dedicated forum sites, and I also know that some people got chased off by trolls (Z, Foofoo, Borbon's endless avatars, etc), and I know I couldn't stay logged in for a long time- every page load logged me out. But the silence here is still deafening.

Where has everyone gone? Did the novelty of forums for climbing just wear off (we do tend to be a quasi-misanthropic bunch)? The hiking and skiing forums still have decent traffic...

[JasonG]

If you figure that out @CascadeClimber let us know! 

Good to see you back here, I know I've personally gotten much out of your TRs/banter over the years.  The new board is super easy to post on (even pictures, gasp), so we hope that you can continue to contribute for the next 18 years!

Don't be a stranger now, you hear? 

[olyclimber]

There are a number of reasons but the lights are still on and we are going to work to make the site more useful. All the old users may never come back. There are number of climbers that have moved on from here to the “big time”, and they are posting to Alpinist and sharing on their own blog.  There are a number of people that find it easy just to log in to Facebook and live in that bubble of reality.

i think here our goal will be to keep the database of TRs available and continue to tinker and make the site better.  I think you’ll notice so really good things we have going now.

[olyclimber]

[JayB]

Even though this has been going on for years - seems like '09/10 is when I noticed traffic really falling off - the software upgrade has prompted a discussion about this amongst a few of the moderators that have stuck around. Part of it is that traffic to messageboards has been cratering since ~2010 thanks to the advent of social media and the fact that people are increasingly accessing the internet with their phones. Great for scrolling through photos, not particularly good for participating in any medium that requires much in the way of reading or typing. FWIW I think blogs have suffered declines that are just as dramatic, if not more so.

I think that back in the day there was also a novelty-factor that's just flat out gone. It's almost hard to remember what it was like before the internet, but to me it almost felt like you had to rely on fate or good fortune to run into people who were into the outdoor hobbies that you were into. There was something undeniably exciting about tapping into a massive network of people and intel a thousand times broader than anything that would have been imaginable before. Trip reports, FA's, Pub-clubs, Ropeups, etc. I think that quite a bit of that high-grade psychological ore had been mined by the time the mobile/social wave came along, and the incremental loss of vitality those changes brought about certainly didn't help inspire people to keep participating once there was a sense that there wasn't much to add to what had come before. 

The funny thing about all of this is that, as I said in the moderator's forum - social media channels are a horrible substitute for message boards. I've never been involved in a social media group for any hobby that had anything more than a smattering of when/where/who type posts every now and then. They just don't lend themselves to serving as a medium for conversations/contributions that are the least-bit substantive or in-depth, and they are horrible as archives. I have no idea what happens to posts in a Facebook group, but it seems like it may as well be gone forever in just a few days. 

That leads me to what I see as the primary value of the site, which is an incredible archive of TR's, route intel, and experiences that'll never be reproduced anywhere else. I think that there are ways to leverage and build on that and grow the site and restore some vitality in the current internet landscape, but I think that it's unlikely the the vibe that the old-timers on this site remember from the first few years will return anytime soon. 

As an aside I wonder if the hotel proprietors in Lillooet are also wondering what the hell happened. On the few trips that I took up there it seemed like there were a couple of dozens climbers in town every weekend, and everyone with a set of tools seemed to know all about it. I'm way out of that scene now since I hardly have the time to climb at all anymore, let alone take off for a full weekend - but the handful of folks I know who are still active have never heard of it and don't seem terribly interested in making the trip. Maybe it's still going off up there, but if not it's an illustration of how things you'd think would be timeless (still the same amount of ice up there, no?) can wax and wane. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pu]

Of course i only speak for myself.  I do everything possible not to post in order to avoid an argument or get trolled.  I stopped posting tr's because it was a pita to share photos. Now, that will change.  

I love the TR database.

It's not just this site.  Gravsports was wounded early and is practically dead.  Only trolls seem to reside there now.  

Now it seems that everthing fbook and instgram are the only place to see things and i guess its because it is trendy and easy/shallow.

I still come back here in hopes of seeing tr's and partner wanted posts.  Maybe things will cycle back around.  

 

 

 

[JasonG]

And just so you guys know @pu and @CascadeClimber, the searchable TR page will come back.  Jon is working on a replacement.

[JayB]

I think it's safe to say that these days you'd almost have to beg someone to come on and troll you and/or argue with you.  Maybe if you announced a GoFundMe campaign to retrobolt Outer Space or something you'd get a taker or two but even that would probably only induce some offline eye-rolling. This site has been around that some of the original protagonists are at a stage in life where they reserve that sort of emotional energy for their grandchildren, or mitigating the effects of benign prostate enlargement, and some of the controversies about things like the ethics of replacing drilled angles with bolts would probably only elicit confusion from anyone under thirty. Hell - even "crazypolishbob" is a paragon of moderation these days.

I think that the argument/trolling factor was obviously a put-off for a significant number of people, but I have to say that it doesn't appear to me that FB is totally free from that either. Kind of an occupational hazard of putting an even modestly controversial opinion out there on the internet. Ironically enough - it seems like a venue where people interact with made-up names can actually be kind of a pyschological buffer that enables to leave it on the internet.  Interacting with real identities as on FB does restrain peoples behavior, but people seem to put  "LolTron4000!!!" mercilessly mocking  behind them them more easily than their third cousin's snide comment about the hat they wore to the women's march.

That's a long way of saying that I think things are very different now, and I hope that more folks like yourself will dip their toes back in the water and start contributing TRs, etc again.

[Bronco]

I believe a lot of us OG's have gotten more experienced and less interested in posting about every exploit in the outdoors.  If there's already multiple well written and photographed TR's on a certain route, I know I'm more reluctant to put up another one with less gooder grammar and cell phone pics.  Also, just gettin older, get out less, and care less about posting. I try to put up my best climb of each year but that's about it.

 

[JasonG]

That's fine @Bronco, but I think the board could also benefit from quick TRs that focus on conditions/access updates, similar to what you find on WTA for hikes.  I think once the TR database gets back up this will be even more helpful for people looking to see what is in good nick. 

Also, we're talking about having a sticky thread at the top of each TR forum for condition updates.  So either place would be great to throw up a few pics/comments when you come back from whatever.  I don't think you have to worry about being cutting edge, few of us are!

[Bronco]

Jason, I think a conditions report for each region would turn out to be the busiest and most entertaining threads here.  

[JayB]

The most exciting climbing related event I've experienced in the past few months was the discovery of a massive glacial erratic in "Martha Lake Airport Park" that you could actually use for a bit of light bouldering. Almost as improbable as the discovery of "Sweet Granite in Renton" many years ago. Someone fire it up and post a TR!

https://www.summitpost.org/airport-boulder/823130

[olyclimber]

I know there was some talk of one in North Seattle a while back...was it Wedgewood (listed as illegal to climb on):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glacial_erratic_boulders_of_King_County,_Washington#List_of_boulders

[olyclimber]

Dang you got me excited about erratics! 

https://nwgeology.wordpress.com/the-fieldtrips/glacial-erratic-field-trips/the-lake-stevens-monster-largest-erratic-in-washington-largest-in-the-us/

there is even bolt chopping talk in the comments!

 

[CascadeClimber]

2 hours ago, JayB said:

Almost as improbable as the discovery of "Sweet Granite in Renton" many years ago.

Ah yes, "Sweet Granite in Renton", nailing on Green Dragon, Layton's infamous TR as told from the perspective of his unhatched turd. Amidst all the noise there was some classic signal.

[aikidjoe]

15 hours ago, JayB said:

That leads me to what I see as the primary value of the site, which is an incredible archive of TR's, route intel, and experiences that'll never be reproduced anywhere else.

Totally agree with this. I've also met a couple of climbing partners that I would call good friends through this site (and of course bad ones that make for good stories). I really hope that a) the updated site will bring people back since it's now easier to use and 2) that I have trips this year worthy of posting here! 

Edited January 31, 2018 by aikidjoe

[Rad]

I think there are many values to this site. The biggest is TRs. Another is more up to date conditions. Another is discussion among members that is hard to find elsewhere - given current conditions (or my vacation in two months) should I do X or Y route, go to area A or B? People with experience share their knowledge. Then there's partners, used gear, gear tips, events, and so forth. Yes, the interweb has changed since CC started, but I don't see anything out there that replaces it. Hopefully those that left will return, or we'll get some fresh faces to reinvigorate the discussions.

[JayB]

 

[genepires]

while on the topic of making this site more active, is there a way to make posting TR's as easy as entering someting on facebook?   I have not explored the new TR system yet but it seems like a system that allows a couple quick photos with a couple paragraphs posted while in the action still or on the drive home would encourage more content.

I do enjoy reading TR's of trips that have many previous reports already.  Seeing smiles is always a good thing.

 

[alpine et]

Enjoy all the work you folks have put in, and love sifting through the TRs for future trip stoke. Best way to plan a trip - see a peak on the horizon in person. Second best? stoke from a TR.

I won't post much for a few years since I moved back east... but for some reason keep popping up here to see what's happening, only to find out that noone is climbing, I guess . The highly tentatively likely to change life plan is to return to the PNW in 3-5 years, and I'll post up lots of hikes with toddlers then: 

 

[JasonG]

2 hours ago, genepires said:

while on the topic of making this site more active, is there a way to make posting TR's as easy as entering someting on facebook?   I have not explored the new TR system yet but it seems like a system that allows a couple quick photos with a couple paragraphs posted while in the action still or on the drive home would encourage more content.

I don't have a FB account, but posting a TR from your phone is super easy now.  Just did a test over here

[JasonG]

1 hour ago, alpine et said:

won't post much for a few years since I moved back east...

We have a forum for that!  Keep up the posts from the other coast!  I've never done much back east so I at least would be interested what you get up to.

[olyclimber]

23 minutes ago, JasonG said:

We have a forum for that!  Keep up the posts from the other coast!  I've never done much back east so I at least would be interested what you get up to.

Seconded!  you can live on the other coast and still be a PNWer, especially if this is where your heart is..   Also there is a kids climbing forum too.   

[Choada_Boy]

Ah, Life...

Partner gets leukemia and ice climbing doesn't seem so important anymore...

 

[JasonG]

Sorry to hear that @Choada_Boy, hopefully things are looking up for you all. 

Agreed that climbing is far from the most important thing in the world.....