Emmons Cravasse death

[olyclimber]

http://komonews.com/news/local/man-skies-into-crevasse-dies-on-mount-rainier

 

 

[genepires]

different situation but another skier crevasse fall over the 4th july weekend

 

http://unofficialnetworks.com/2017/07/18/heavenly-ski-patroller-dies-on-mt-rainier/

 

[genepires]

I mean this is in a honest non judgemental way. It is illegal to climb rainier solo without a permit. How is it OK to ski down unroped? why is that not considered solo climbing?

 

Yeah I know he had partners somewhat nearby and skiers are less likely to punch through due to spreading the weight out over more snow. But with skiis getting shorter, it seems like that advantage is becoming less.

 

I am not being critical of anyone's choices. We all do activities that have the possibility of injury or death. Sometimes blind luck saves us. sometimes luck is not good enough. Just curious how this fits in with MRNP rules. Maybe just a loop hole.

[dberdinka]

There has been a slew of skiers falling into OPEN holes this year. Far more than years past. Whether that is just random variation, a result of increasing skier days or due to a change in how aggressive people are skiing could be debated endlessly.

 

Regardless. Based on known accidents over the last 10-20 years Mt Rainier above 12k seems particularly dangerous for skiers with multiple deaths (at least 3 now I'm aware off). Only one of those involved breaking through a hidden crevasse in midwinter.

[diepj]

I'm sorry to hear about the loss. I also hadn't heard about the other skier over the 4th. To be fair it sounds like he may have been lower on the mountain and broke through into a creek. Similar concept I guess but I never really thought of the two in exactly the same way.

 

I am surprised it doesn't happen more... Not really skiers specifically. But the number of people just walking around up there is astounding. Had never climbed Emmons and had some time over the 4th so went and checked it out.

 

As you transition off the ridge and on to the Emmons below the camp Schurman you can see HUGE crevasses that the route passes over on bridges. No way to not notice this. There were plenty of people continuing here unroped. Also plenty of skiers skiing down there. Not exactly taking it wide around the cracks either. Won't happen to me maybe?

 

Camped at Emmons flats. Even assuming that people probed their sites, many just walking back and forth down to Schurman. Definitely crevasse potential in the area. If there is a boot pack there all will be well, right?

 

Saw some of the same between the flats and the corridor although most were roped up here. Except the people glissading. And some skiers. It seemed like a pretty good snowpack but there were some cracks below for sure. I mean there are glissade tracks starting literally 2 steps below narrow open cracks.

 

And then a group which shares with us the pacific shores. Descending on foot, roughly spaced out as if on a rope. Except no rope. I was first exposed to this concept on Denali and saw it all the time and all over the mountain. I mean WTF? Why are these guys (and its always middle aged guys) always climbing with a team but doing their own thing? I guess that's not solo, right?

[Rad]

Gene, MRNP doesn't have rules about being on a rope. The "solo" thing is about going up the mountain by yourself rather than with partners. If you look at the forms, there is very little by way of rules.

 

Sad about these deaths. Mountains are dangerous for many reasons.

Be safe out there and have fun.

[DPS]

I've skied a few of the volcanoes as well as other glaciated peaks (Adams, Hood, Baker, Shuksan, etc.) but never Rainier above 10k. I've always been too chicken. Maybe I was just being smart?

 

I saw the same thing on Denali, and really don't understand the not roping up on Denali and Rainier. What are you proving, that you can walk through a mine field without stepping on one? I see it as different than soloing technical routes like Infinite Spur or Moonflower Buttress, those routes demand extreme skill. Nothing inherently difficult about walking unroped on a glacier.

Edited July 19, 2017 by DPS

[genepires]

Gene, MRNP doesn't have rules about being on a rope. The "solo" thing is about going up the mountain by yourself rather than with partners. If you look at the forms, there is very little by way of rules.

 

Sad about these deaths. Mountains are dangerous for many reasons.

Be safe out there and have fun.

 

I knew about fact that if you were with another but not roped, you were ok in NPS eyes. My question is why is OK to be unroped in a team but not unroped solo?

 

I suspect that they left this unroped teams as an option for their climbing rangers operations.

[Rad]

Gene, MRNP doesn't have rules about being on a rope. The "solo" thing is about going up the mountain by yourself rather than with partners. If you look at the forms, there is very little by way of rules. ....

 

I knew about fact that if you were with another but not roped, you were ok in NPS eyes. My question is why is OK to be unroped in a team but not unroped solo?

 

I suspect that they left this unroped teams as an option for their climbing rangers operations.

 

Any safety requirements would be impossible to enforce. People need to use their own judgment. Should you be unroped on the Inter- Glacier? It has a few crevasses, but few rope up there. What about around Camp Muir? Below Muir? On the crater rim? On the Emmons early season? Depends, depends, depends. The last thing the NPS, or any other agency, wants to do is mandate safety practices and try to enforce them, because this implies if you follow them you'll be safe. And that's just not the case. The best they can do is encourage you to bring standard safety equipment and use it. That's very different from mandating certain practices.

 

[aikidjoe]

I knew about fact that if you were with another but not roped, you were ok in NPS eyes. My question is why is OK to be unroped in a team but not unroped solo?

 

I suspect that they left this unroped teams as an option for their climbing rangers operations.

 

Maybe the logic is that if you are with a team, at least someone will know exactly where you are and can call for a rescue?

[JasonG]

The best they can do is encourage you to bring standard safety equipment and use it.

 

[ScaredSilly]

Solo - no one knows where the body is located.

 

Team but unroped - one person knows where the body is located.

[genepires]

my thought was that if they allow unroped teams and skiers going down, they should allow soloists without the special permit. I imagine it would be become a total shit show up there though with every denim pants wearing, coloradan 14-er, trying to run up the mountain solo.

[DPS]

I imagine it would be become a total shit show up there though with every denim pants wearing, coloradan 14-er, trying to run up the mountain solo.

 

I recall a story of man showing up at Camp Muir wearing cut off shorts and a giant knife asking one of the guides (may have even been big Lou) "What does it take for a real man to climb this mountain?" I believe the answer was along the lines of "When one walks by I'' be sure to ask him."