Rodchester

I have bibler I-tent aas do twwo buddies and we all love them. They do have limitations, small and lightweght will bring on limitations, but I love them. If I was on a thirty day alaska/yukon trip I would love the TNF-VE 25, but here on short trips they rock.

Just a quick point regardiong "legal" responsibility or "liability" In the states, as well as most anglolegal systems we have a legal doctrine called acceptance of risk. Put simply, you participate in it you accept the risk. Now with many things the risks are not inherent. However we have a long chaoin of legal history, called precedent that clearly outlines that all things dealing with heights, fire and water are inherently dangerous. Meaning that any compentant person is able to look at it and assess the dangers. Heights = gravity. Water = drown. Fire = burn. The theory is that anyone from a five year old up is competant to understand the basic dangers involved. How does this translate to climbing? Well as a general rule anything involving climbing involves "acceptance of risk." Just like swim at your own risk. Now in recent years there has been a distinction made between waters that are natural and man made. These leads into the attractive nuisance doctrine. ...which means if you create the nuisance and it harms some one you may be liable. This applies to swimming pools and not putting a fence around them. What does this mean for climbers? Well right now nothing. If you climb and fall whtther it is guided or unguided, sport or trad, crag or alpine, no one is liable. So the short answer on bolts is: no one is responsible other than yourself....in a legal sense. I did not feel that the thread asked this question in a legal sense, but since it was brought up by Dru I thought I would put it out there. It is possible, and one thing I greatly fear about "sport" climbing, that it may cause the creep of the attractive nuisance doctrine into sport climbing. A very clear and cogent argument can be made for liability in a gym setting since it is man made...like the swimming pool. The question is does bolting a route make it man made? I do think it is good to have an informal group try to police bolts when possible...but no one other than the user is or should ever be "responsible." My, and the laws, two cents. Check that bolt before you clip it.

crazyjz: What leads you to say Chris Boskoff is trailer trash?

Mattp I had to stop reading your post when you stated: "From the perspective of anybody who cares about Arab nationalism and human dignity in that part of the world, they believe that we installed the Shah of Iran in the 1950's . . . " Iran is not an Arab state, the people are Persian...not Arabic. They do not speak Arabic. They do not practice the same Islam as most of the Islamic Arab world. (Many Arabs are christian as well as other faiths) Afganistan is not an Arab country. In fact it is located rather far from the Arab world. Afganistan does not have a "government" as we consider governments in the West. Afganistan has been suffering from MANY problems ever since the Soviet invasion. It has never recovered. The Taliban is a quasi-government that does not have popular support of the people. It is not democratc. It siezed power with the help of the Pakistani Inteiligence community. In fact without that country's involvment the Taliban would not exist. The northeast of Afganistan is not even controlled by the Taliban. Don't take it personal...I actually am not trying to diss on you. But you seem to oversimplfy while you say others are over simplfying this unprecidented act of terror. Regarding US involvement in the region as well as other places around the world, every country that can, does what it can to influence events and governments around the world. (i.e. Pakistan setting up Taliban) This is not new. This is not a US thing. This is not a Western thing. Iran is actively opposed to the Taliban and takes actions to oppose it. Read the bible as a quasi-history book and that becomes obvious. EVERY counttry does it. We must do it. While the US has no always been as good as we should be, we have conducted the cleanest intel gathering of ANY other country. That includes smaller countries like Spain. Being so damn nice has in part contributed to the present problem. Because we are a hegmon, we are in the spotlight. As a very close Palistinian friend often says, "In the middle east we are so convinced that the CIA is all powerful that when a dog farts, we blame it on the CIA." On Arab nationalism, I would simply say ask an Arab. There is no such thing. Naser's dream was just a dream. No Arab country is pursuing that dream. That dream was a damning factor to the Palistinians because it gave the something to hold onto, something that did not exist. Now they speak of the Arab nation and no Arab counties come to their aid. Arabs are a nation like all arayans are a nation. Pure bullshit. A dream of academics, political pundists, and well meaning uneducated individuals. The response will be sweeping and many will die. They now it and we know it. As they say, "In Casablanca life is cheap."

The Jetstream is not the lightest pack out there. It is the lightest alpine climbing pack of its size WITH A FRAME.

I checked it out on Barrabes for $136.00 American. That is the pack and I would grab it. It is on clearance and there can't be many left. Just like shoes, someone can tell you how great a pack is...but if it doesn't fit you, it doesn't fit you. So there is a chance you may not like the fit. I found the fit to be fairly basic...as far as fitting a wide range of "average" people. I am 72 inches and havea 43 inch chest. The large fits well. I found the regular fit well too, but the large fits better with gear and winter clothes on. Whopper has the regular size and is shorter than me but has more of a barrel chest build. Plain and simple...the pack rocks for all alpine climbing. No frills, lightweight, simple, effective. Grab it...and good luck. Let me know how it goes brother.

Problem is getting your hand on a jetstream pack is hard. They do NOT make it anymore and the new version is not what you want. If you can find a leftover or a used one grap it. It is lightweight (Spectra material), simple "X" frame which is a very basic two stay system so it has just enough frame to carry around fifty pounds with no problem but not so much that it weighs a ton and is bulky, it has tool tubes, an excellent cramp-on pouch that just rocks for mountianering and ice climbing, two daisy chains, has a "slot" to put in a bivy pad if you want, it is an extendable pack that acts as a bviy as well. It is a simple no thrills pack that focuses on function...not form. It has between 3000 and 3300 cu inches depending on size. Comes in regular and large. The kidney pad...or waist belt...is just enough to grap the hips, but not much more. There are two gear loops on the belt...one on each side, and there are two ski slots on the pack bag. Simple light yet just enough frame to hump a load. Perfect size for two-three days if you can travel light. I have used it ice climbing as well as on alpine rock and LOVE the pack. They used to sell it for $200.00 and you could get it on sale at time for a good bit cheaper. Whopper only paid $100.00 for his. If you can get it...get it.

I have had good experience with OR gear and have had the warranty dept repair gear properly and timely. I can see why they would want to keep the store seperate from the warranty dept....but they should still ACCEPT the item and hand it into warranty. I agree REI has plenty of problems, lack of stock of basic itmes is a major problem, and failure to carry cutting edge or even specialty gear is another. As far as staff goes...welcome to a good economy. I try to shop small stores such as second ascent in Ballard and Nelson's shop when possible.

"In Casablanca life is cheap"

half mast please

Good point Dru.....hmmmm....ladies I think Brian needs a girlfriend.

You know I think it is worse for women...I mean as far as society saying they should not be a mom and climb. The amount of criticism that surrounded Alison Hargreaves was WAY WAY WAY beyond that surrounding Alex Lowe. When Alison died coming off K2 in 1995 (?) the only thing the press focused on was that she was a mother who had left behind children. People take chances everyday, if you are a parent and cop or a fireman it is cool. If you are a parent and a climber you are irresponsible. Unto each their own...risk...peak...life.

Dennis, I seriously doubt there is a straight answer....and I doubt many, if any, are actually leaving. Just BS rumors. Guides often leave companies or guiding altogether. Some guides get burned out, some love the job but want more money, some want to spend more time climbing at their level and not at the level of a client. Few guides stay at any one company for more than a few years...regardless of it being Madness, AAI, or RMI. Some do stay and really build themselves a nitch. Madness has a strong share of these guides. I just completed a trip with Madness and loved it. I have used them for overseas trips in the past and will use them again. Will, As far as making big money in the outdoor industry...even the giants don't make much. I am very close to a few major climbers (yes sponsored pros) and guide company owners. I have seen the books and they are not impressive. I am an attorney who has represented them in many scenarios, including deals with Nat Geo, Travel Channel, Discvery Channel, as well as sponsorship from the big gear companies. There just isn't much many there. I do most of the work gratis or for a deeply discounted rate because I hate to see them get screwed and I love the climbing community. As far as guide companies go, they have MANY hidden costs/overhead. Insurance, payment to the Forest Service and Park Service for "user days", advertising, etc. The overhead will kill you quickly. Yes RMI has a sweet deal but old Lou lined that up YEARS ago....don't think you or anyone else will unseat him. If you wish to operate below the radar screen you can do so more cheaply and make more money....you can also end up in a lot of hot water. Then you will have to call an attorney and pay him/her to bail you out. And he or her will tell you about how you can't actually get out of it....you can pay alot and srtill have a judgment entered against you. I encourage you to step up to the plate and use a little entreprenuerial energy to easily double your wage and gain a modicum of control over your schedule, working conditions, etc. But then you won't be a guide any more...you'll be an owner. By the way, it takes the average guiding company ten years to become financially stable. If you can make it for ten years maybe you will be making "loot." You'd be the first. I am more than happy to prvide you further advice if you are serious. Good luck

Will, Your numbers are way off and you have not even figured on any start up costs. You also completely forgot about the costs of "user days" to the Fed Gov. This is a major expense. I applaude your efforts..but encourage you to really think this through more clearly and completely. Maybe you should start a new thread.

I yalked to carlos Buhler about three weels ago and he said the upper section of the Black Ice Couloir is wiped out. I would imagine a lot of the ice is bad. Two very hot and dry summers in a row with an average winter in the middle spell shitty conditions...good rock though.

Who is jumping ship and to where?

"Bake a pie, eat a pie." Al Bundy

Adam, The wife and I each have the TNF Nuptse Jacket and love it. It is lightweight and very compressible. It is also priced fairly....you can usually find it on sale. The best lightweight down coat is by feathered friends....expensive. Marmot also makes a good down sweater that is 700 fill. good luck.... [This message has been edited by Rodchester (edited 09-04-2001).]

If you mountaineer overseas guide services are great. They handle all of the logistics and messy permits. They also know where to go and what to skip. I work full time and the time off needs to be spent climbing...not planning to climb. Dru...have you been over 28,000 feet? [This message has been edited by Rodchester (edited 08-16-2001).]

jtflyfisher, Mountain Madness has been in business continually since 1983. In 1996 Scott Fisher died on Everest and the company was briefly run by his widow (through her sister). In 1997 Christine Boskoff purchased the company from Scott's estate. Christine has been the owner and operator of the company continually since. Any changes have been the normal ebb and flow of changes in staff. Mark Gunlogson has been running the office for quite some time now and has been connected with the company for years. Mountain Madness runs various expeditions and safaris all over the globe on all seven continents. Most trips are "scheduled" trips, however "custom" trips to anywhere are always being scheduled. Mountain Madness has an excellent record of success and saftey. They employ a wide variety of competant guides, both male and female. The fact of the matter is that many of the guide services are good companies. I am sure that someone somewhere has had a bad experience with Mountain Madness....just as some have had bad experiences with AAI and RMI. I would ask those that have given you the "bad" if it is based on a trip that they were actually guided on? Since you are being guided, that is the info you need. Ignore the rest. I am curious to know what bad you heard? Remember there are always skeptics. I went on a 20 day course in Peru a couple of years ago and had a blast. The food was great, the guide was great, the whole trip rocked (Huascaran & Pisco). I am going to Tanzania this weekend with Mountain Madness. No problems. Good luck!!!

I have used the APS film and think it is decent at best. 35mm blows it away. I just have them scanned when I need to use an image on the computer/web.

Call Mountain Madness at 206-937-8389

This one time...I was at band camp... and I stuck my flute in my pu....

Jules does still work for M2. Call them at 206-936-8389. They can try to get a message to him...but often times the guides don't check their mailboxes for a while. Good guy....good luck.

Just the market fixing itself....no big deal.