dberdinka

quote: Originally posted by jkrueger: ...but it seems that there is no longer a consensus of an established ethic and it is simply turning into a free for all? That appears to be the case. I'm still curious as to everyones opinion on this.

quote: Originally posted by erik: is there ever a consensous??? Never on cascadeclimbers.com But if more and more super-bolted (or should I just call them sport?)routes are put up and stay up then consensus by a combination of action/in-action develops. No?

Ok, I know I’m kicking a dead horse here but I’ve got to ask. What did I miss? Has the general consensus in the Icicle become that it is reasonable to place bolts next to natural gear placements? Case in point are the new sport routes that have been developed along the base of Icicle Buttress. While I did not climb any of them, one appears to have 3 bolts spaced out along a 10’ crack and a bolt every 4’ beyond that. This route was mentioned recently on this site but I was surprised to see that it still existed. A lot of common TRs also seem to be sprouting a web of bolts. Everyone likes new routes, particularly ones of quality. Furthermore I think most of us enjoy clipping a nice fat bolt. But I would like to think that over-bolted squeeze jobs, particularly bolted cracks, have no place in the Icicle. Everyone knows where Retrosaurus stands on this issue, how about other active climbers in the Leavenworth area? Crack Bolter you seem to have some opinions here. How about Victor , you obviously have an interest in route development here and have put up some fine bolted routes, even fine retro-bolted routes, over the years ( i.e. Bale-Kramer Route, Mr Tremendous, etc.) I’m not trying to start some heinous flame war. But these new routes are obviously a huge shift from past route development. Is this the future? Is there a new consensus on what is reasonable?

quote: Originally posted by michael_layton: I'm drinkin' some Jim Beam to take the edge of my shitty failed attempt off a route I've wanted to solo for a while that I'd rather not name, and for reasons I won't bother to divulge (because I suck) before I pass out. Mike, you are the Mark Twight of CC.com. Take it easy on yourself brother.

So Dave Page is the old standby, but I can't say I've ever been overwhelmed by their consistency. Anyone out there have any recommendations for a great (mailorder) resoler? Thanks.

Just to add my $0.02. All the 5.10 pitches are very nice, unfortunately the quality of the rest of the route leaves something to be desired. The final pitch "wild crack" is all of 20' long. It's a great climb but definitely not the ***** classic is been made out to be. In the same area Rebel Yell is more exciting/quality route, though obviously not as long.

What good is a juggy dyke?!

quote: Originally posted by mattp: The climbing is spectacular and the views magnificent, but be prepared for run-out slab, wet moss, loose rock, routefinding issues, and missing rappel stations. A good time was had by all. For how long will you mislead the masses?

E Face of Mox Peak is BIG (2000+' ?), obscure, probably chossy and probably unclimbed. Post a TR when you're done.

Hmmmm...Mattp has much good climbing up his sleeve on Blueberry Hill. Go with him there Greg, you will have a good time.

Couple years back the pressure chamber was protected by fixed nuts. Whether they're still there or not the pro was bomber. Psychopath had a fair bit of RPs near the crux but they were bomber as well. I don't think it's been overhyped, it's an awesome climb!

http://www.summitpost.com/cgi-bin/mlist.pl?f_id=10 Enjoy! Good Riddance... [ 05-09-2002, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: dberdinka ]

[ 05-09-2002, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: dberdinka ]

I don't know the details...but someone has been trying to free it. There are shiny new bolts on the lower pitches and at least 1 good bolt at every belay. Looks worth checking out, lots of nice rock on Blueberry Hill....

NO SHIT!! This is from the same website. If hiking in isn't your bag he'll fly you there! Well to the Palisades at least. "During my early years there, I stumbled across an abandoned trail that opens a back door into the high basin of the Palisades... We will transfer to four wheel drives on Saturday morning August 8 to get to the roadhead. From an old cow camp on Baker Creek, we begin to hike. A faint track through sage brush will seem umpromising at first, but it leads over a ridge to suddenly reveal the finest view of this cirque available anywhere. Breaking the journey (which is already easier than the usual trail climbing up Big Pine Creek.... This unusual approach opens up one further possibility that is even more exotic? flying to the Palisades. Up on Coyote Flat is a military airstrip, formerly secret but now wide open, where generations of jet and helicopter pilots have trained for high altitude landings. If you like, we'll arrange a charter flight with our friend Hart Drobish, who is the most experienced bush pilot in the Sierra, buzzing the Palisades summits just before landing. Call for details."

On 5/1 the Schreiber Meadows Road was blocked by snow at 2440' about 3.5 miles from the summer parking lot. Road won't melt out for a looong time. Snow conditions high on the mountain were excellent for skiing and/or climbing. Bring skis or snowshoes for the approach as it would definitely be a bit post-holey.

This outpouring of support....it just brings tears to my eyes. But were in the hell are my damn KEYS!? Actually, I've already managed to replace them. Toyota's have a key code that can come in very handy when your to lazy or stOOpid to keep a spare handy. This time was not as epic as 2 summers ago, when a mysterious rodent stole my keys away from under the chassis of my truck (common occurance evidently!). It happened midweek at the parking lot for Mount Gimli. Thats 20+ logging road miles away from the nearest little town and a good 80 miles from the nearest locksmith in Nelson. After 12 miles of hiking a series of friendly hippies in the Slocan Valey helped us get back in the car within 24 hours. One of those reaffirming-faith-in-humanity type stories.... Hope you're all enjoying your desk as much as I am on this beautiful day!

Lost my car keys on Saturday 4/27. Maybe at Pesh-ass-tin, maybe near Sams Hill or Trundle Dome, heck maybe in Ballard. Its half a dozen keys and a neon green LED light. If you happened to stumble across them send me a PM or reply here. Thanks.

Rereading my first post, I cringe a little knowing it will be interpreted as being derisive towards the skiers in question. It certainly comes off as being cavalier. Regardless, I think it is perfectly legitimate to review the actions of any climber who has died because (as already pointed out) generally there is a lot to be learned from such incidents. I'm willing to say that 99% of climbing fatalities result from human error. (There are always exceptions) That statement probably deserves a certain amount of explanation. Climbing is to a great extent all about risk management. Being fully aware of the level of risk one is accepting and doing everything possible to minimize it. Of course everyone has a different threshold for how much risk they are willing to accept. The spectrum ranges from the casual peak scrambler to the free soloist, etc. In my experience accidents and fatalities occur when we place ourselves in a position of greater risk than we originally planned on accepting. The reasons for doing so are many. Some general explanations being inexperience, group dynamics, tunnel vision (focus on goals) and carelessness. I've been lucky enough to avoid getting whacked on several of occasions. Every time I screwed up. Here are some examples. 1.) Spending a very long time, on a very small belay ledge waiting to rappel. Realizing I'm not clipped into anything as I finally rig my rappel. Reason: carelessness 2.) Skiing (actually cliffed out) directly below the Hanging Glacier when a very large avalanche decided to calve off. Reason: tunnel vision NOT objective hazards. Choosing to follow the best snow on the way down without giving much consideration to where we were. 3.) Watching a friend die when we were far to Inexperienced to be climbing that particular route. My point being, I doubt those guys went up their thinking they had 50% odds of surviving. To say, "It’s a great tragedy, but they died doing what they loved most. That is the price we pay for the beauty of the mountains", might make everyone feel better. But it does little to make any of us safer climbers. Climbing mountains is great, but it's not worth dieing for.

After eating a large serving of humble pie, I guess I'll be off to join the summitposter gang. Have a nice day!

Ok, I'll go ahead and put myself in the firing line here. So based on the AP article I can surmise (is that a word?) the following. Day 1 (Thursday April 4th) Sea level to 10,000' Day 2 (Friday April 5th) to 14,500' Day 3-4 (Sat-Sun 6th and 7th) to 16,000' Day 5 (Monday April 8th) to 18,008' Ok, so they all lived at 7,000+ feet, skied and climbed hard above that regularly. The weather was probably great (rarely on Elias in April?), so they chose to go for it (speed equals safety being the latest buzzword). Anyway you cut it that is a really fast rate of ascent. How safe was it? I would GUESS! that they were performing at less than optimal levels due to a lack of acclimization. Considering they were climbing and trying to ski down technical terrain that MIGHT have been near their limits ("It was survival skiing" was the quote in the Sunday paper) under optimal conditions. MAYBE (obviously?) they pushed it a little far. Fire away boys!

Ok, even the last rewrite was bound to piss someone off. Let it be forever expunged. Sorry Chuck. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX [ 04-16-2002, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: dberdinka ]

Maybe this was beat into the ground a long time ago..but Wotan's got me thinking As excellent as Mr. Nelson's first book was, the second is by all means the worst "select" guide book I've ever seen. What is all that crap? and how did it get selected? The intros were never proof-read and seem to be lifted in chunks directly from the first. Worst of all whats with the REI model doing the hanging rappel of Pinnacle Peak? where's his pack? or is he going superlight? So to compare the Nelson's 1 -to- Becky's 10 ratio you'd need to take Fairly's old guide, count em up, add a few more and do your math. Dru, you going to handle that?

I own an old Black Diamond butt bag. It is buried in the bottom of a gear box somewhere. Basically, I never thought it increased my comfort level at hanging belays. It took some of the pressure off the leg loops, but created additional pressure points by smashing anything on my harness against my body. Carabiners, nut tools, etc. don't feel very good digging into your hip. [ 04-12-2002: Message edited by: dberdinka ]

If you choose to go to the most crowded route in Red Rocks on a weekend, one that attracts more than it's share of less-than-competent parties due to its classic stature, easy rating and solid pro, I think you should probably just suck it up, take it easy and deal with the waits unless you're given permission to pass. Basically you're there (hopefully) to have fun, just like everyone else. Climbing over, under, on-top-of and around other parties (particularly without belay ledges) is rarely fun for anyone involved unless your ego needs some bolstering. To solve the problem, get up earlier! (though you'd probably need to bivi to get dibs on that route) or pick something harder, remoter, or less classic. On Wednesday, March 27th my buddy and I showed up at the base of the same route to find ourselves 11th and 12th in line. We immediately bolted about 10 minutes away to Ginger Buttress where our only company that day was a big horn sheep. Great climbing on a fine line. On the hike out we ran into #7 and #8 on CC who spent 4 hours climbing and waiting on the first 2 pitches before bailing. Pretty harsh considering they started their walk in at 4:30 AM!