obwan

Sobo - you are funny, and got the jump on Dru on this one. Al Filo - take no offense, just a little humor.

Lots of good info in this thread - obviously it has been a tragic event, god bless those involved. I know very well what the death of friends does to your mind set, and continuing doing what they enjoy doing. It's hard shit. Mtguide - your excellent input is well taken and I hope others can feel the risk assessment nature of your input is very real. Even in my own case, as I look back on my accidents - it was overconfidence and letting my guard down that caused them all. It seems as though it is always the most experienced that it happens to - again 'god bless' and I express my greatest sympathy. I do not know 'who' makes the call when it's time to go - the loss of friends has nagged me a lot, even more so when in a spooky situation; and the demons of doubt start their mantra. It's really hard to turn back, and comes down to knowing when to hold em' and when to fold em'. Adios to some good people.

Vantage is the desert here in the NW, it's usually dry and climbable.

I messed up the quote thing. What a Stoke for Tieton! I 2nd what Off-White and Drederek have said - that canyon is a cool place.

The Tieton area was a good part of the response to KyleJ's question regarding where's the best place to learn crack climbing in the NW, in this same forum (just up a few notches). Quite a few of everyone's favorites were listed.

sobo - that's the TR, awesome photos! The loose rock at the top would sure be crazy if there was an earthquake while on route.

The climbing is very good - just watch out for the rope chopping loosely stacked dinner plates at the top.

May is a good time - the climbs face south and usually dry. You can get there by the scenic route of Chinook Pass/White Pass & HWY 12 - it's basically just east of Naches, or drive to the Yakima area, then to Tieton. Camping at Rimrock Lake is good. There is a great trip report on this site somewhere by sobo. Also try www.cascadeimages.com/cr/tieton/tieton.htm

Wow! You've nailed it - and I'll bet your taxes are very low. Being in the middle of the state is quite an advantage, you are within easy reach of all the climbing. When you look at the state map and throw a dart - Wenatchee is right in the center and Roslyn is pretty close. Finding a place where there is climbing right out the back door would be a challenge, maybe North Bend?

In response to your search for a location that would give you something "based on need for a wide range of climbing at your door step" could be a challenge, and I apologize if this gets a little to long. I'm pretty familiar with those that have vacation cabins/homes in the Winthrop/ Mazama area. The late Summer and Fall seasons are pretty awesome. Winters are tough as the HWY 20 is closed and one has to drive from the Wenatchee/Leavenworth area (2-3hrs) and (4.5-5hrs) from the westside Seattle/Bellevue area. What does your "wide range" include - Alpine, Ice or just Rock? It really matters, as going north on the eastside puts you in striking distance of good Ice in B.C. as well as Eastern Wash. Whereas, the west side north such as Blghm would make it quite a long travel around and through the passes of Stevens or I90/Blewett, not realistic. The Mazama/Winthrop area is the closest to North Cascades Peaks and some good rock, such as the Liberty Bell - just a stones throw (30-45 min drive). Also some great XCountry ski trails. So, you can see the perfect place at your door is quite a challenge. DPS and Winter are correct - an investment in some property and cabin is fairly long term; and since you can't take it with you - maybe spending it on some other world locations ain't a bad idea. So, it depends on what your long term goal is all about. My vote is somewhere on the eastside like Leavenworth or Wenatchee, putting me in striking distance of the Central Cascades, as well as the North Cascades and even B.C. Just my two cents. Good luck in your adventure.

I have been known to climb that place 11 out of 12 months of the year.

Perfect!

Not much around Whistler - as mentioned head up toward The Rambles, there is some good moderate stuff around Lillooet. Cache Creek is a fairly easy drive - I haven't been that way for awhile but it had some good places to stay and good food. Cheers!

All very good advice regarding Vantage vs Tieton. The difference being, Vantage basalt cracks are fairly smooth and tapered, whereas Tieton has a rougher texture. This translates to the "gear" holding much better at 'T' - the cams have a tendency to walk when wiggled at Vantage, and true enough desert basalt climbers favor hexes. For novice crack climbing/learning - be very suspect. ::

You guys are right on - that place can play a lot of tricks on the mind in those conditions. The Demons of Doubt can also nag you just when you don't need them. One trip on the Muir hike, I was sitting out a white out and appeared to look frozen and doomed - and heard voices roaming around me. Suddenly, they came into view a few feet away and I scared the crap out of them up close, and frozen. They were lost and I was in luck with a map, gps and a compass - we laughed and descended together and made it back safely.

Thanks for your Squamish input bstach - for sure the Smoke Bluffs are full of good stuff for the beginning crack climber, eh. The thing with B&F is, it allows one to place pro and fool around without any great stress, your picks are excellent. It sounds like KyleJ wants to start on some easy stuff - and Squeemish is the place, mostly top rope-able and not intimidating.

I agree, don't jump on that hard stuff- if someone is just learning crack climbing, one needs to start out on at least two grades below what they sport climb. And as mentioned above, having a mentor to help out is worth a lot. It has been said before, being a good second partner on cracks is beneficial and would shorten the learning curve. I've also heard that one's experience level is measured in the "miles" spent on crack climbing, that's miles - not feet. So my advice is find some true and easy 5.6- 5.7 such as "burgers and fries" at Squamish.

Another tip, if you are just getting started in "crack" - don't invest a fortune in all the costly cams (unless you already have). Top roping is the best way to get started to see if you like it. Then if you want to build a low cost rack - you could do the "old school" scenario, and start out with some wired hexes and nuts. Then when you get hooked you'll be spending a ton of dinero on SLC's. Good luck, lots of good stuff as mentioned above.

What a bummer - that place can be nasty in the winter, especially with high winds and a blizzard. Very good input from Mtguide and DPS - if the climbers had the experience to hunker down early on in the storm in a snow cave, maybe they are ok. It's a real risk management issue, when to go and when not to go - Ed and Fred know it ain't going anywhere, sometimes best to come back another day. God bless and all those searching , be careful - you are all very hardcore folks. I think on monday the weather may ease up for some chopper runs - good luck!

Sounds like fun - be sure to send us a trip report!!

It will be interesting to hear the survivor's story, and what emergency gear he had along. Having a decade of winter hiking/snowshoeing and leading a group of sixteen people, I'm sure he was equipped as noted in the above posts. If not then he was very lucky and very hardcore. A snowcave is 2-3 times warmer than the reported night time temps of 14 degress. And even those emergency bivvy bags will save your ass.

Good idea to Timberline - sobo! Slate Peak/Lookout in the North Cascades on the PCT above Mazama is deemed the highest one can drive a car in WA - about 7400ft. But not worth the effort as it is about 5-6 hours drive. The recon trip mentioned by Water is worthwhile from the experience and exposure to The Mountain, and a chance to see the coming and goings of summit teams. The idea of packing water up the hill is a great idea in training, to save those knees for the real thing. Good Luck!

This is good info - it really depends how much time/travel you have. Camp Muir would put you in the best frame of mind and getting stoked to complete your adventure, just seeing The Mountain up close helps. It takes me back to a time when I went down to Crater Lake to run the 26.2 marathon at 6-7,000 ft. I thought, no problem - then being a sea-level slug I got my ass kicked. Then tried running up the Mt. Kuealua (not the spelling) in Hawaii - same issue. Then I studied it further and found out that I would have needed 7-10 days to properly adapt, and that 1-2 days before the event was a better way to go with the proper rest and hydration. I also think staying over night at altitude is very helpful. Good Luck!

Here goes another 5 page thread - great ideas!

To a lesser degree of commitment to time and travel, a couple of recon trips up to Camp Muir to 10,000ft with a heavy pack would be helpful.