obwan

C'mon, don't people know what project ropes are all about - especially at World. I hope you get your rope back, it should not be deemed "booty".

My vote is 2 ltr minimum - 3 ltr max, no stove. Just don't depend on "bladders" - they are to unreliable, as the hoses freeze up plus the chance of leaking ( although they are convenient on the hike up to basecamp, easier to hydrate more often,etc. (but not as critical if there is any failure). With the altitude and exertion required, the usage is about one pint per hour. Based on that formula, you are pretty dry when you get back - so the idea of hydrating a lot before and after is the key; then you won't be so f'd up getting back in the car.

This stuff is becoming hilarious! Basically, a newbie should maybe rent an axe for the first year - and use a 65-70cm. Starting out they feel more comfortable, until they see how the axe works. But when it comes to buy one, they will be more satisfied with a 60-65cm. Just my 2cents, couldn't resist.

Good point!

Cracks really suck at Vantage - it is mostly a bolted/sporto jug-fest. Good for the upper body work-out.

I have used the waterproof map stuff to help the longevity of the paper maps, but generally use zip-loc bags to keep them dry, and fold them accordingly for the right area. Again, I agree that the scale is not the greatest on Green Trails - but the "big picture" and "current" issues are invaluable. ps. The comment about Labor Day being unreliable is true - I've been caught in some real gully washers. To bad the best window is only 7/15 - 8/15, I used to remember NW summers lasting 3 months. MtGuide has some good map tips.

There are some websites that have topo maps, some were recently mentioned on cc.com - maybe do a search or google some of them. The issue with standard topos is, while the scale is better - the trails are sometimes old and not up to date regarding approach roads, etc.

Also, can anyone recommend any maps for the areas mentioned as a quick search on Amazon didn't reveal any Trails Illustrated maps with coverage of those mountains. Kaiman; Regarding the map situation, I would go into greentrails.com and research what they have. I find them very useful for the "big picture" and they show approach trails and roads, albeit not the scale that some mountain men prefer. But they are invaluable when guide books sandbag you. ( I keep screwing up this "qoute" thing). Welcome aboard.

All of the above info is spot on - even our best weatherman will agree July 12th - Labor day is the best time frame in the NW. Especially with the latest winter storms, the mountains have taken on some heavy snow falls. Best to keep checking on conditions and plan around those time frames. I don't think the Southern Cascades will as much as a problem as our Northern Cascades. I'm sure others will have some good suggestions to consider. Good luck.

Idea Guy - a good report, I know many details will follow. Thank the Almighty she is alive - a clean fall, ( with no belay/rope issues) from that distance is usually pretty damaging, with internal injuries, etc. Get well soon and stay strong.

There's also a place called XY Crag that is very short and easy to communicate with the climber (not intimidating), and close to the road.

Over the years in climbing, we all know that shit happens - even with gear failure, bad accidents have been avoided. I have mentioned before about the "compounding effect" when things start to go wrong. By recognizing any issues early on, sometimes an accident can be mitigated. Sometimes , one mistake you can sneak by - and two mistakes you can get lucky: but the third one in a row is usually three strikes and your out. So this one beat the odds and one lives another day to come back climbing another day!

Now that you seem to be surviving - it appears this thread may become a belay/device discussion, that's ok, and we all would like to hear more about the new runner. And I debated with myself about putting my two cents worth into the issue. I'm like a few old school on this site that started climbing before ATC's and GriGri's were invented. But, I have stayed with the development over the years as I have seen improvements and safety features that are pretty important. I basically started on a stitch plate and figure 8, as noted the spring was a pain and the 8 caused the rope to coil badly after a few rappels. Along comes the best and simpleist device ever - the ATC. I've used the GRiGri many times and I only own one because it has become a handy solo-belay device. Basically my thoughts on it are that it is a good belay device for the inattentive belayer, but is a very poor lowering device. I have seen several people drop/zipped to the ground -- even though it's a no brainer. You could faint and keel over and it will catch a fall - so yeah, a backup (sort of). Speaking of Vantage (Feathers)- I once saw a Boy Scout leader (180lb)zipped to the ground by a 100lb learner - not the kid's fault either as his leader threaded it backwards. So to make a long story short, don't rush out and buy one unless you really need one. Here's another GriGri story that you don't need to hear - I was teaching some youngsters climbing on top rope and busy talking to all the kids. And the parent said - Excuse me, would you mind watching my daughter. I apologised and said the device was a no brainer and would he like to belay her ( as I was somewhat embarrassed) . And to make a point, being a bit cocky - I let go of both hands as she just stayed put and went no where. I was fired on the spot. Even the manufacturer (Pretzel) says not to use it for lead belaying on trad as the quick braking does not allow for dynamics and has a lot of shock load. So, go figure - it's all in how the gear is applied and used. As these climbing stories continue , I'm sure the moderators will move it to a new thread, as it has drifted away from the Vantage accident report. Sorry,

Man, you and belayer both took a real beating on this one - glad that you are on the mend. I'm a fly weight myself and have slammed the wall a few times. Looks like JosephH called it - and all of the on-going analysis will help. And as for all of us; time to bone up on belay devices and technique. For the most part, the system works. Hope you can recover soon.

The best thing you can do is Google "Shasta Shuttle", and compare the prices. I'd say Redding is your best bet as it is the closest at 70 miles. Good luck.

Ditto

That might be a first! Ditto!

That's the best way to go - use a few of those "leaver biners", those cheezy aluminum rings look scary. And I have even seen folks top rope on them - whew!

I agree - a right time and place, if the situation warants it use one.

Looks like you might add a few carabiners and some slings/webbing.

It might be over-kill on the lockers, but what ever works; hopefully we find out some things "not to do" from this experience when we hear the real story. Hopefully, we will get some answers to some of Monty's questions - he's obviously old school like me, and certainly the details will help us understand how to stay out of trouble. Sometimes, you think you are doing every thing right - and then shit happens. I had a friend who missed a clip at the second draw, and hit the ground, resulting in a fractured vertabrae. It was a built-in grounder with the first bolt 10 ft up and the second bolt was 15ft up. So I teach my friends to "Hang Dog or Die". This obviously is not anything to do with the present issue - but we all develop a fix to something, ie. lockers on draws. Always take care and no shortcuts. Get well soon.

First of all, I offer my sympathy and then my encouragement to hang in there and be strong. The worst thing about my falls and injuries were the healing and rehab - which are of course harder than the comeback. It will be a good analysis of the incident that could help others, as we learn together in this risky adventure of climbing.

There are two fun 3 pitch routes in the '60 TRAD CLIMBS" - 'The Swift' 5.7 and 'Dappled Mare' 5.8; they are in the Lost Horse area. A nice place.

Reserved for "asford".