obwan

Over the years in climbing, we all know that shit happens - even with gear failure, bad accidents have been avoided. I have mentioned before about the "compounding effect" when things start to go wrong. By recognizing any issues early on, sometimes an accident can be mitigated. Sometimes , one mistake you can sneak by - and two mistakes you can get lucky: but the third one in a row is usually three strikes and your out. So this one beat the odds and one lives another day to come back climbing another day!

Now that you seem to be surviving - it appears this thread may become a belay/device discussion, that's ok, and we all would like to hear more about the new runner. And I debated with myself about putting my two cents worth into the issue. I'm like a few old school on this site that started climbing before ATC's and GriGri's were invented. But, I have stayed with the development over the years as I have seen improvements and safety features that are pretty important. I basically started on a stitch plate and figure 8, as noted the spring was a pain and the 8 caused the rope to coil badly after a few rappels. Along comes the best and simpleist device ever - the ATC. I've used the GRiGri many times and I only own one because it has become a handy solo-belay device. Basically my thoughts on it are that it is a good belay device for the inattentive belayer, but is a very poor lowering device. I have seen several people drop/zipped to the ground -- even though it's a no brainer. You could faint and keel over and it will catch a fall - so yeah, a backup (sort of). Speaking of Vantage (Feathers)- I once saw a Boy Scout leader (180lb)zipped to the ground by a 100lb learner - not the kid's fault either as his leader threaded it backwards. So to make a long story short, don't rush out and buy one unless you really need one. Here's another GriGri story that you don't need to hear - I was teaching some youngsters climbing on top rope and busy talking to all the kids. And the parent said - Excuse me, would you mind watching my daughter. I apologised and said the device was a no brainer and would he like to belay her ( as I was somewhat embarrassed) . And to make a point, being a bit cocky - I let go of both hands as she just stayed put and went no where. I was fired on the spot. Even the manufacturer (Pretzel) says not to use it for lead belaying on trad as the quick braking does not allow for dynamics and has a lot of shock load. So, go figure - it's all in how the gear is applied and used. As these climbing stories continue , I'm sure the moderators will move it to a new thread, as it has drifted away from the Vantage accident report. Sorry,

Man, you and belayer both took a real beating on this one - glad that you are on the mend. I'm a fly weight myself and have slammed the wall a few times. Looks like JosephH called it - and all of the on-going analysis will help. And as for all of us; time to bone up on belay devices and technique. For the most part, the system works. Hope you can recover soon.

The best thing you can do is Google "Shasta Shuttle", and compare the prices. I'd say Redding is your best bet as it is the closest at 70 miles. Good luck.

Ditto

That might be a first! Ditto!

That's the best way to go - use a few of those "leaver biners", those cheezy aluminum rings look scary. And I have even seen folks top rope on them - whew!

I agree - a right time and place, if the situation warants it use one.

Looks like you might add a few carabiners and some slings/webbing.

It might be over-kill on the lockers, but what ever works; hopefully we find out some things "not to do" from this experience when we hear the real story. Hopefully, we will get some answers to some of Monty's questions - he's obviously old school like me, and certainly the details will help us understand how to stay out of trouble. Sometimes, you think you are doing every thing right - and then shit happens. I had a friend who missed a clip at the second draw, and hit the ground, resulting in a fractured vertabrae. It was a built-in grounder with the first bolt 10 ft up and the second bolt was 15ft up. So I teach my friends to "Hang Dog or Die". This obviously is not anything to do with the present issue - but we all develop a fix to something, ie. lockers on draws. Always take care and no shortcuts. Get well soon.

First of all, I offer my sympathy and then my encouragement to hang in there and be strong. The worst thing about my falls and injuries were the healing and rehab - which are of course harder than the comeback. It will be a good analysis of the incident that could help others, as we learn together in this risky adventure of climbing.

There are two fun 3 pitch routes in the '60 TRAD CLIMBS" - 'The Swift' 5.7 and 'Dappled Mare' 5.8; they are in the Lost Horse area. A nice place.

Reserved for "asford".

As mentioned, multipitch are hard to come by - for moderate and fun trad routes, The 60 Trad Routes book is the best one and saves a lot of time searching around. "Where two Deserts Meet" easy 5.8 is short and fun. "Mental Physics" 5.7 at Lenticular Dome is the best at it's grade, forget the 2nd pitch ( take two ropes) "Touch and Go" is a hard 5.9 IMO One cannot leave the Park without doing "Sail Away" a hard 5.8, but fun. Easiest 5.6 in the Park "Ain't Nothing But a J-Tree Thing" And of course "Rainy Day Women" at 5.7 "Fote Hog" is a 5.6 sandbag (more like 5.8/5.9) Just some of my favorites. I may be up there next week, look for WA plates (Yakima Sky Box on Top of my KIA).

I took a "screamer" ( a fall where you have lots of freefall to be able to scream) out of Pat's Crack at Vantage just to the right of Ride em' Cowboy in about 2004-5. In Frenchman's Coulee book by Ford&Yoder, it's listed as a 5.8 hand crack; in Whitelaw's book "Weekend Rock" it's a 5.9 with gear needed to 4 inches. As noted above, gear has a tendency to pull or walk in that type of smooth basalt - Matt P. described it properly, and other threads have noted that hexes in desert rock sets better. I had been climbing cracks everywhere for years and thought this was going well, I was mostly using BD and Metolius cams, and seemed to be running low. I was so comfortable with the spacing and actually reached down to move a piece up so I would have enough to top out. I was up about 85-90 ft, then the next piece was a BD gold, and now I was about 30feet above the last pro (but had sufficient gear in the first half). Again feeling in control and over confident - I clipped the piece and was moving the rope out of the crack - and the piece walked out, just as my hand slipped out of the crack. And what a ride - about 60-65 feet and possibly 5-10 feet more with rope stretch and belay dynamics. It was actually a soft fall, and I was about 10- 15feet from the ground - and did not come in contact with the rock. The good news it was Tony B. brand new rope (oops). So the stars were aligned in my favor, having an experienced belayer able to pull in some slack, and the next piece held - a metolius #5 quad/black. Also in my favor was that the amount of rope out (maybe 90-100ft) accounting for a low fall factor, additionally being only a buck twenty lbs helped. Tony also put an opposing nut setup at the start of the climb. It happened so fast, it took me a while, and a lot of campfire beers to figure out what went wrong. I really let my guard down, and felt pretty bad about the new rope. What I learned was - do not remove any good placements, and stitch the hell out of it with sometimes doubles at the crux as mentioned, or Don't Fall! I was lucky, as the Fall Factor was about .66 (length of fall/length of rope out) - so the trick is to reduce the length of the fall by placing lots of gear and more so in the first half of the climb. p.s. In mid 2003 I volunteered some of my cams to the Kropp testing done by Mike Gautier, as he needed the same type and vintage cams. That is his analysis in the above link by Jon.

I have stumbled into an extra copy of "Tieton River Rocks", by Marlene Ford and Jim Yoder - it's hard to find, being out of print for awhile(2004). If a guide book qualifies as "gear", this maybe should be in The Yard Sale Forum. Long story short - it retailed for $26; I'll ship it to you for $25. Pm me if you need one - it's in perfect condition.

Dan - Wow, thanks for the report - you guys do an incredible job every year, very thorough and it's actually pretty dangerous. Take care and work safe.

We would need to see if the buckle is double-backed: but then I realized the Petzl buckles do not have that requirement. Nice ice tool.

Johnthe3rd: This time of year is the best (early Spring) - no need to buy a guide book, just show up and everyone there will have one. As said before, most of the climbs on Sunshine Wall are easy to TR. Cheers,

Damn - that's nice. The technical issue is "the harness is on backwards", but that's ok for what I'm thinking.

Patrix As already stated July can be hot on the eastern half of the state. It kinda depends on how much time you have, to get the most climbing in - sounds like you are staying close to the I-90 corridor on the way east to Montana. Leavenworth is a nice place to climb and has some camping, or a great place to hang out in town. It's about an hour from Cle Elum/I-90, and one could climb all day and still get back to I-90 at Ellensburg. Better to stay a day or two to get the most out of climbing there, as some of the climbs take some recon and hiking. If you are short on time, stopping at Vantage mid-week just to see the vertical basalt is interesting; one could climb the shady side or get done by noon - the sunny side is sizzling hot. It's only worth a quick stop/look-see, and definitely not on the weekend. Continuing on I-90 to Spokane, there is a neat place to climb just out of downtown, and it's jump out of the car climbing. It's the Minihaha Park (google it for route info) - It is single pitch and has good moderate trad routes in the 5.4 to 5.9 range. Definitely worth a quick stop for the day. Before you head out of the Seattle area - a stop in North Bend at Exit 38, the Far Side and Lil SI (exit 32) have some great routes - mostly sport, but not as hot as the Eastside. Enjoy your trip!

Very good input from DPS and Matt - I view March as fairly harsh conditions still in MRNP, follow their advice and you'll maybe hit it just right. Usually May/June, things are warming up and not that good for ice - it's so weather dependent, it sometimes sucks. "thrilling" is a good description of the North Ridge. Have Fun!

The sad part is - no one has all the answers on Avalanches, they are pretty unpredictable even though there are methods of prediction. But, as usual they are mother nature at it's very worse - such as floods, earthquakes or what ever. And the vote as to head for the trees or stay in the open is probably 50/50. It depends on the area - do you always have Cascade Cement coming down or some easy moving Snow Sugar. It's to bad the only cure is to avoid them when conditions start to add up - it's the old 3 strikes and your out. One mistake can get you by, and sometimes the second mistake will forgive you - but accidents (especially the ones I have had) are compounding; and when it adds up to three, your chances of surviving are slim. Be mindful of the powers of three. Be Safe!

A good discussion regarding anchors - it certainly depends on the situation at hand. Obviously for descending it should be backed-up, and bomber in a perfect world - but as one can realize in the alpine scenario, you may be down to your last cordelette, webbing; and come on - we all have some of those "leaver" beaners that have outlived their use for lead falls, but would make nice rap or belay stations. It's not that we would be setting up a picture perfect anchor for Top Roping/ Teaching, or belaying on multi-pitch. You have to do the best with what you got, and beware - webbing will melt thru, especially if it is sun bleached/aged.