montypiton

given the discussion of self-arrest here, I feel I'd best clarify my recommendations: I've introduced all three of my sons to alpine climbing, after several years' rock climbing. although I did teach them self-arrest, I never put them in a position of having to self-arrest. I kept them on belay (or at least shortroped) in any/every exposed situation, regardless of difficulty. Of the climbs I suggested, all, except for Goode, can reasonably be "pitched out" in a day. and I have to agree with Trash - the exit from Goode is kind of a pain. A great climb, with a lousy descent. maybe more adventure than you want for a novice. I stand by my Argonaut recommends, though. Both routes are really fun, and, yes, moderate. But I admit, it would never occur to me to take a novice on either one unroped. I climbed these routes with experienced partners, and even though the climbing was moderate, and our self arrest skills second nature, we still climbed roped, and protected.

unless its a heavy snow year (this year is a snow drought so far...) the West Ridge of Stuart is likely to be snow-free by July. North Ridge, as Keenwesh recommends, is probably a better choice. Approach is via the Stuart Glacier, then a couloir to access the ridge on the classic version of the route. West Ridge of Forbidden is another gem, but you need to be on it early in the year because the access couloir is a nightmare after the snow's gone. June should be good, but again, consider that this winter is a snow drought, so don't wait too late for this one. Both routes are on Roper/Steck Fifty Classic Climbs list... Argonaut, in the Stuart Range, has a pair of great classic mixed routes on its north aspect: its northeast, and northwest buttresses both have steep couloir starts. The northeast couloir is longer, with a 5.6 rock finish. The northwest couloir is shorter, with a longer 5.7 rock finish. Depending on conditions, either couloir could require full on ice climbing (two tools, though protectable on rock), or they could be step-kicking up snow. Great fun, and two routes for one approach/camp. What's not to like? From Washington Pass, Silverstar has a moderate glacier route with a scramble rock finish. Not difficult, but great alpine ambiance. And in June, Liberty Bell and the Early Winter Spires will likely have snow in the approach couloirs -- all have moderate routes. NE Buttress on Mt. Goode is fun, bit of steep glacier at the bottom to access the buttress, then a looong moderate rock route to the top. (way cool summit bivvy...) Looong approach, though. Either take the boat to Stehekin and approach from the south, or hike all the way from Washington Pass if approaching from the north. Wonderfully remote, but will likely take 3-4 days.

Drury is in, Pencil is in. Comic Book Hero is incomplete. Drip is in, but not as fat as I like. Penstock is in, Plastic Fantastic Lover is thin, but doable. In the Icicle, climbed at Millenium Wall and Rainbow Falls this week, Candlesteins were forming fast, but not quite there yet on Thursday - didn't have time to look today. Haven't driven up to check the Funnel, but it's usually a good bet... -Haireball -Haireball

You should be fine. I've used two bags one inside the other like you're describing, and gotten by with a lighter combination than the one you describe. (30'inside 15') double up on pads - and old-school foam mat under a therma-rest used to be the gold standard up there. These days, a closed-cell foam pad under a neo-air might be even better. Especially if you're staying low on the Kahiltna - temps at that altitude (6000') are much more moderate than high on Denali or Foraker. Same for the jacket combination. One advantage to layering like that instead of depending on an "expedition" weight jacket is you have the option of wearing one or the other by itself when it's cold, but not nasty enough to require both. I'm presuming your bigger puffy has a hood. You have a hardshell that will fit over both puffies?

walked up Snow Creek today,(Feb 1) and found unexpectedly good ice on the Millenium Wall. Climbed four different lines, all with sufficient ice to accept screws for lead. nothing in the main Icicle Canyon at this time.

ice?? this year?? fugedaboudit. Had 8" snow today, though, so nordic skiing should be good now. Got a look at Nada Falls (above Nada Lake) from Wedge Mountain last week, and it looks climbable... Last walk up Snow Creek was not encouraging -- not much on Millenium Wall, and nothing at all on Fourmile Falls. We're pretty much starting from scratch again... if we're lucky, we might have ice in a couple of weeks given a decent melt/freeze cycle... pray!

Nick - I've been in Leavenworth since 1980 -- drive a school bus so have mid-days off during the week - good for short cragging days. If you don't mind hanging out with an Old Fart, I'd be happy to show you around and hook you up with more partners --- -Haireball 509/433-6401

pm sent

mid-may is actually a great time to visit the stuart range if you like classic mixed alpine climbing. triple couloir and stuart glacier couloir may be the best known routes, but depending on the year, these may or may not be in. I've seen triple couloirs obesely fat in June some years, but dry by april in others. if you trust your routefinding, there are usually seasonal mixed lines, just not always in the same places. consider giving yourself a day's cushion, especially if the eightmile road is still gated. I've done triple couloir bumper to bumper from the Icicle road, and found it a looooong day. consider carrying a light pair of binoculars - you may scope something that looks like more fun than what's in your guidebook... camping in the Icicle Canyon in May should not be a problem - usfs campgrounds will be open by then, and you'll be earlier than the permit season for your high camps. depending on how our spring shapes up, you could need floatation into June, or have a walkable trail as early as April. Check at Leavenworth Mountain Sports for current conditions when you get here.

I've had good experience with pants of Schoeller fabrics in a couple of different brands. I prefer the THIN versions, so I can wear them in warm weather, or layer underneath them for colder trips. They breathe extremely well, and I have rappeled through a waterfall in one pair,while my legs remained dry (quite a surprise - magic?!?). I've heard great reports about "neo-shell", but I don't know if anyone makes pants out of it -- I've only seen jackets. For me, brand is less important then what they're made of.

I've had good experience with pants of Schoeller fabrics in a couple of different brands. I prefer the THIN versions, so I can wear them in warm weather, or layer underneath them for colder trips. They breathe extremely well, and I have rappeled through a waterfall in one pair,while my legs remained dry (quite a surprise - magic?!?). I've heard great reports about "neo-shell", but I don't know if anyone makes pants out of it -- I've only seen jackets. For me, brand is less important then what they're made of.

clubs like the Mountaineers and the Washington Alpine Club provide coaching/instruction free of charge. If you can't make their formal scheduled courses, just find someone willing to drag you up a climb. I got my foundation in the boy scouts and a college outdoor program. read Freedom of the Hills, then continue to study it as you progress. study knots, anchors, belays, protection, then go out and experiment on "easy" ground. the fastest way to progress is to climb regularly with someone more experienced/proficient than yourself. more than one experienced partner means you get to see more than one way of doing things. my friends and I learned to lead rock and ice by leading on rock and ice - because we didn't know anyone in our home area to follow. I began by practicing on aid lines - which meant I loaded every placement, and the placements were close together. As I became confident of my placements, I began to spread them further apart. It was less than six months before I was leading easy climbs, and once you're at that point, you can progress at whatever pace suits you. regarding gear - buy it as you need it. if you can find experienced partners, you'll be using their ropes. you can start with as little as a harness, and a single locking carabiner. this will allow you to belay or rappel with a Munter Hitch. before you get too far along, if you're doing multi-pitch climbs, you'll probably want to invest in a personal anchor system. you don't necessarily NEED dedicated rock shoes, but you may decide you want them fairly early on. a dedicated belay device is optional, but almost every climber uses one these days. there are lots of options, some very expensive (@$100), some very inexpensive (@$15). ask your mentors what they like, and practice handling theirs if possible. you don't need to acquire piles of carabiners, nuts, cams and slings until you're doing a the lead climbing. Buy the stuff as you need it - and hopefully you won't end up with a bin or two of items you never use.

good on ya, Jens. I hope you're still up for the Recurve if/when it forms. it's a grudge match for Vern, now, too... -Haireball

for the amount of time you're proposing, I'm thinking you'd get the most bang for your buck by looking for a concentration of climbing in one area. somebody mentioned the Liberty Bell group, and I would second the Washington Pass area. I'd also suggest the Stuart Range, but focus either on Stuart or around Colchuck Lake. in May you could have warm alpine rock, classic mixed, or couloir ice -- depending on the year. The fattest ice I've ever seen on the Triple Couloir on Dragontail was the first week of June one year back in the nineties. I've seen the same climb "bare & dry" at the same time of year. - depends on the year. I have found relatively dependable "classic mixed" climbs on Dragontail and Stuart in May, but these are "seasonal" lines, varying from year-to-year - not the sort of climb to be found in a guidebook, there-one-year-gone-the-next. With Patagonian and Alaskan experience, I'm presuming you have well-developed avalanche safety skills, and the ability to pick a line and climb it without a topo. Without those skillsets your options may be pretty limited.

mittens are dead easy to make if you can operate a sewing machine. for my two Denali trips I used a pair of "pile" (you'd use "fleece" these days)mittens that I made for myself, with gore-tex shell mitts (cordura palms)made to fit over the pile mitts. with the glove options we have available these days, I haven't NEEDED mittens in the lower forty-eight or BC/Alberta for thirty years... my got-to-rig for 0-F & below these days is a shell-and-liner combination by Granite Gear. they fit even my great ham-hands generously enough to accommodate a light liner inside the fleece inner glove, making a three-layer-total. I've even tried them with a dry-tooling style glove inside the fleece, and found them acceptable below 0-F. or - you could spend $150 or so at any of the big-name mountain clothing manufacturers, and get a pair or mittens you'll probably never use outside the Himalaya, Arctic, or Antarctic... and if it's THAT cold, you can pretty much forget about dexterity - your hands will be either warm (and so bundled up as to be pretty much useless for anything more than holding an ice-axe or trekking pole), or they'll be too cold to operate after about thirty seconds exposed in a thin glove (less if you go down to skin). You could probably operate a belay if it's pretty simple to rig...

always room for new partners dumb enough to jump on mixed alpine terrain. I may be old, but I'm slow... 40 years experience. email me -- curthaire@nwi.net

yes, the kiwi-coil is the preferred protocol for shortening a rope between climbers. you did well to tie off the coil with an overhand, however to transmit the load of a fall to your harness, you clip the tail of your overhand-on-a-bight into the tie-in point of your harness. if you've left the tail short, the load should come initially on your harness, and the coil will help keep you upright, like a chest harness does. this is particularly important if you're climbing with a pack of any size, because in that case, you're top-heavy, and more likely to invert in a fall without upper body support. this method also captures the tail of your overhand-on-a-bight so it can't inadvertently work loose.

I've resoled some leather shoes (Aces) as much as three times (I resole my own shoes). I've found Aquaseal to last far longer than shoe-goo for this kind of patch. These days, I save the rubber grindings from my resole episodes, and mix the ground rubber with the aquaseal for patching rands. It works well, lasts, and is far less taxing than trying to re-rand. If you do-it-yourself with a resole kit from 5.10, you'll have more than enough ground rubber for the rand patch. -Haireball

Desperately seeking partners for some Teton time. I had two climbs lined up (both through) this board, and both partners bailed at the last minute. I'll be in Idaho Falls (little over an hour from the Park) until August 9, then have to get on the road back to Leavenworth. Objective would be a long moderate route on the Grand, Moran, or Owen. I'm an Old Fart. Sawtooths might be an option, too. Further from I.F., but on the way home. -Curt Haire, 509/433-6401

if you go with anything skinnier than about 7mm, for adequate friction the O-P SBG, rigged in the maximum friction mode will work, and it's inexpensive at just over half the price of the BD-guide. if you happen to have an old figure-eight around, you can wrap the rope through it twice, and have more friction than you'll ever need. you could rap on a munter, or even use the old carabiner wrap technique (very old school)using however many wraps it takes to yield a comfortable rate of descent. or if you're utterly fanatical about the weight, leave the harness behind and dulfersitz it. with ski-clothes, the burn might not be so bad. if you opt for the dulfer, saving the weight of harness + rappel device offers the option of upsizing your rope...

congrats, gentlemen! old as I am, Huntington is still on my phantasy ticklist... !

I'll be in Idaho Falls on family business for at least the first week of August -- hoping to hook up with one or more partners for some teton action...

For summer and ultralight I use an old (vintage 1989) NF "Lightrider" -- it was a forerunner of today's "pounders" - a one pound down bag with no side block baffle opposite the zipper, so that you can shake all the down to the top side of the bag for cooler nights, or to the bottom side when you really don't even need a bag... I don't even remember its temp rating, but it couldn't be lower than about forty. You want an ultralight summer bag? FF, WM, Marmot, and others all offer something in 800+ goose down at about a pound. Choose the one with the features you want. Then consider pairing it with a wide-body three season bag for extreme cold. Back in 1991 I ordered a fifteen-degree bag from FF with their "extra-girth-option". It makes a luxuriously comfortable three-season bag with room for the lightrider to fully loft when used as a liner inside it. I've used the pair ski-touring in the Alaska Range in February. The FF bag, at two-pounds-plus, is my "three-season" bag, though I routinely use it by itself for winter trips in the Cascades. And the Lightrider is my ultralight workhorse - its one-pound total has pulled duty for desert trips, Rainier climbs, and even as a half-bag paired with an expedition-weight down jacket on the South Face of Aconcagua in 1990.

Castle Rock: Mr. Clean, Mrs Clean, Clean Love, Brass Balls, Crack of Doom, Devil's Fright, Devil's Delight, MF Overhang, Vertebrae Icicle Butt-rest: Forking Crack, Cocaine Crack Givler's Dome: Bo Derek, Bondage Alphabet Rock: Z-crack, Meat Grinder, Hindquarters, Alphabet Soup Little Bridge Creek Rock: Arms Control Deb's Crack Condor Buttress: Condorphamine Addiction These are all well established -- most have been considered "classic" at one time or another. They see far less traffic today than they saw in the 'eighties, because most are NOT bolted. Condorphamine Addiction is the glaring exception - a multi-pitch bolted sport-climb drop to 5.9 and you get the Bone, Damnation, and Canary (5.8 in the guidebook, possibly a sandbag) at Castle, and Dogleg Crack at Alphabet Rock, plus Poison Ivy Crack and Ski-tracks Crack in the lower Icicle canyon by the cabins (Icicle Island. All except Condor Buttress & Givler's Dome is roadside stuff, ten minute or less approach.

for the price of most altimeter watches, you can get a decent GPS unit that will give you a lots more information than the watches do...