montypiton

we might do better to think in terms of "fashion" rather than "ethics" forty years ago, when I started climbing, bolted free-climbs were not "fashionable". now they are. if you don't like the bolts, don't use 'em. its all about FUN, right? loosen up and have some (fun, I mean...) - if the routes aren't interesting enough or hard enough for you, try climbing them in alpine boots with a thirty-pound pack - preferably in a blizzard, and without the bolts, of course...

imagine a lead climber having to hunt for his belay cord (attached high in the back, on an OSHA standard fall-arrest harness) to clip protection; or imagine trying to operate a belay/rappel device that is attached to your harness approximately between your shoulder blades. The fact is, a mountaineering/climbing harness must work for more than just supporting the body in a fall. the front tie-in facilitates management of rappels and belays, and clipping protection. The risk of folding the climber backwards in a hard fall, or overstressing the diaphragm in a long hang, can be mitigated by adding a chest harness, and many rescue teams stipulate the use of chest harnesses for high-angle rescue operations where their personnel hang for extended periods (hours at a time, in some cases) for what it's worth, when I've worked as the safety officer on commercial construction sites, I've had no difficulty getting OSHA/WISHA inspectors to accept recreational climbing gear for use as fall-arrest systems. they need to see the engineering data on the climbing gear, but once they can establish that the gear is "equivalent" to OSHA certified stuff, they're happy to approve its use. (at least, the ones I dealt with were...) Many manufacturers (Petzl, Yates, Lowe(in the old days)) sell in both the recreational and industrial markets, so the inspectors are seeing familiar brands on the recreational gear, and I'm sure that helps. Bottom line? A recreational climbing harness will work for a tree-surgeon or a roofer, but the rope will often be in your way. An OSHA approved fall-arrest harness could be used for rock-climbing or mountaineering, but your tie-in would be awkward to manage, at best. It's kinda the same way with shoes, if you think about it...

any of the popular bends will work - a larger concern is the variance in stretch between dissimilar diameter cords - which results in knot travel during the rappel, which sometimes results in stuck ropes.

I believe Dan Lepeska had something to do with the pioneering of this route. Look him up and ask him. If you find him, say hello for me - its been about 25 years...

what would you consider "a reasonable offer"? I'm in the market for a tent for a two-week float-trip in the Brooks range, but I'm not gonna spend more than $200 for it...

On two Denali trips back in the eighties, by far the "most favoritest" item I took was a pressure cooker. Yeah, its a bit heavier than a "mountainteering" kettle, but we found that we actually saved more than the weight difference in fuel, and it allowed us to cook "real" food on the approach ski, and we could get water hot enough to cook rice above 14000'. Peter Hackett's MD pals actually got more excited, at our potlucks, about my "scratch" split-pea soup at 14000' than they did about the steaks and salmon they had air-dropped for these occasions! A good sled is the other must-have. With rigid handles clipped to a waist belt, and long skegs to keep it tracking behind you, we found it easier to drag 100lb loads on sleds than to carry 50lbs on our backs. Never made double carries. A book or two that goes well for reading aloud makes the storm days bearable, or cribbage, or backgammon...

I confess, I'm the one who ties into the ends when I can't verify that the rope reaches ground. And when I reach the following stance, I tie the ends to my next rappel anchor before my partner rappels. If you use an ancient style rappel device such as a figure-8, it's possible to feed the knot through the device, so my preference for tying the ends to me is probably a holdover from the 70s...

many climbers today fail to consider the all-round versatility of rope-slung nuts. you can't fashion a prussik from a wire-slung stopper, and the sewn slings provided on most cams are too short to effectively double as a runner or prussik. dog-bone quickdraws are also a limited-use tool, and I don't bother to buy them for that reason. open runners are far more versatile. by all means buy a few cams, but don't overlook passive pieces. You can buy a rack of hexes or stoppers for the price of a single cam... and there's no such thing as too many carabiners.

dbconlin - by running the belay rope through a biner at the focal point of your anchor, then positioning yourself at your optimal stance, then tieing a figure8 in the strand running to your partner, you create an easy to adjust personal anchor. true, in order to change your distance to the focal point, you must tie another figure-8 and clip that to your harness before removing the first. I suppose you could substitute a clove hitch at your harness for the figure8 knot. then you could adjust your distance to the focal point by loosening and slipping the clove. Either way, the key to easy adjustability is to have the hitch or knot at your harness-tie-in point instead of at the focal point biner. If your clove or figure-8 is made on the focal-point biner, you have to position yourself within reach of that biner to adjust your anchor length. With the system I describe, you can make adjustments from any position, regardless of the distance to the focal point of your anchor.

wow! this thread has done well! I was wondering whether anyone would question the clove-hitch as main anchor tie-in. Like Mattp, I prefer the 8. While either will satisfy the load requirements when tied correctly (and it doesn't matter what knot or hitch you use if you're not tying it correctly!) I find the 8 more convenient for my climbing/belaying style. The loop it creates gives me one more place to hang stuff at a belay station. For those who like the adjustability of the clove, try running your belay rope through a carabiner at the focal point and then clipping a figure-8 knot to your harness. This yields adjustability of tie-in length, while retaining the security of a "knot" (rather than a "hitch" - kurthicks defines the difference above). For those who are addicted to the daisy, try the "prussik upon itself" - tie a double-length runner of 7mm perlon, then prussik-hitch one end of this runner around the other end, and girth-hitch this to your harness' belay loop. This yields an adjustable personal anchor system of belay strength, not to mention being substantially less expensive than any factory daisy. Call me a Luddite, but I guess I just never have found the arguments in favor of sewn runners (of which daisy chains are but one version) particularly compelling, compared to the versatility of a piece of rope.

the studies I'm aware of suggest that maximum short-term acclimatization is achieved by most folks in one-to-two weeks. Little more is achieved unless you're prepared to spend a year or more at altitude. And, as chris states above, you de-acclimatize at about the same rate. For example, physicians in Leadville, Colorado have noticed for decades , a high incidence of pulmonary edema in their clientele returning from Disneyland vacations... Two weeks at sea level was sufficient for these mountain-bred folks to achieve short-term de-acclimatization, and they get sick when they fly home to their 10000'+ native place!

echoing kurthicks' post, daisies are not designed for anchoring belays - but should be considered an aid tool. I like to keep things a)simple, and b)strong. Most often, the strongest link in your belay chain is the rope, so I anchor with that. I am not fond of routing the belay rope from a second climber through a belay anchor above me and then back to my harness, because that multiplies the force on the anchor (you create a 2:1 mechanical advantage against your anchor when you do that). I'm well aware that doubling the force of a top-rope fall is most likely not significant for most anchors, but it's a lousy habit to form and then have to guard against when you eventually find yourself forced to belay off a less-than-stellar anchor. By anchoring myself with the belay rope,(as hemp22 suggests above) and then belaying off the tie-in point on my harness, I keep the maximum amount of shock-absorbing rope in service to protect my belay anchor.

Reading the responses to your initial query, and your responses to those, I get a sense that this question might really be about safe group size for the remoteness of your planned project, rather than simply glacier safety. I say this, because in your posts you offer that you and your partner are well-skilled and experienced in glacier travel. So I might offer a different perspective from other respondents. As background, I'll admit to having soloed the easiest routes on both Denali and Aconcagua, and done numerous remote trips ranging from solo excursions to expeditionary ventures with groups of 12 or more. Based on my experience, I suggest that safety is more a product of your experience, expertise, and the interpersonal dynamics of the group you're traveling with. A group of 12 inexperienced, ignorant, or incompatible companions will most likely be less safe than a fit, experienced, expert solo adventurer. If you and your partner are well-versed in glacier travel/rescue, and are comfortable enough with one another to be considering a trip of this length and remoteness, adding a third, unless you know that third to be your equal in skill and experience and compatibility, is as likely to make your group less safe, as more safe. Where you're headed, there are crevasses that would swallow twenty as easily as two...

I installed viper strikes on a pair of aztars when I couldn't get access to the charlet griprest (quark). It took some futzing and whitling to make it happen, but they function well enough. it doesn't leave much spike exposed, which may be an issue if you hope to use the tool for alpine climbing...

I climbed the Cassin Ridge in 1981 with a girlfriend, and we could have used this product on that trip. We improvised by zipping a Snowlion synthetic bag on the bottom to a Holubar Royalight (best down in the world in those days) on top. It worked perfectly. Thing is, in a forty-year climbing career, that's only once that I would have used this. Commercially viable? - unlikely, I suspect, but possibly on a custom basis...

you mentioned you fell on this piece, but you didn't say how far, or what size the stopper was - these are important details, because a hard fall onto a smaller-range stopper would tend to pretty much weld the sucker, and you'd likely destroy the rock, the stopper, or both in attempting to retrieve it. I've occasionally had to take a hammer to my nut tool to free stubborn chocks, but I've also had that technique result in a destroyed stopper, or an even-more-fixed placement. What I'm sayin' is, if the placement was deep, and you fell any real distance on it, there was probably no hope for it anyway. It did its job, and every piece that does that is a bargain. The most expensive cam out there costs less than an ER visit...

actually, the hammer pictured is not the original, but the second generation "Chouinard Alpine Hammer". The first generation had only five teeth on the pick, and no notch on the underside of the hammer face. I received mine as a birthday gift in 1972, and its still my favorite all-round hammer for alpine use, although it only has three of the original five teeth now. BTW - had a newbie in the Funnel today, and had probably the best waterfall ice I've climbed in Washington - almost like glacier or alpine ice - hard, dry, plastic, superbly consolidated, and fat. Very unusual for around here; season's not quite over yet... Dan is right - Snow Creek Wall is underutilized in the winter. Probably not for long, though, after the traffic it saw this winter. For what its worth, this is also the first winter I've witnessed other climbers in the central gulley on Icicle Buttress. But the word is definitely out now. It's finally gettin' easier to find partners...

One of the best kept secrets of the southwest... spent a couple of weeks there in 1977, also hit Granite Mountain, Oak Creek Canyon, and Baboquivari on that trip. Mt. Lemmon is unique, though, for the amount of belay-from-the bumper cragging on its south side. And grade V lines on the north side that I never got to. Would certainly second Will's recommendation - a much less hectic scene than Josh or Red Rocks, w/ free desert camping, and Tucson has GREAT FOOD!

While getting some access roads plowed sounds admirable, my guess is you'd get pretty dismal results trying to farm ice in Washington. It just doesn't stay cold enough long enough most winters. With the regularity of our "pineapple express" warm fronts, I'm guessing you'd get wet rock for the greatest part of your efforts. Now, if you could develop a process that would guarantee temps below 20f for a month or more at a time, you might have something...

Once upon a time I was under the impression that pro-mountain sports would allow potential buyers to "demo" tools. is this not the case these days? even if not, it might be worth your while to spend some time with Jim Nelson and get his recommendations. I've yet to hear of anyone coming away dissatisfied...

depends on what you're looking for. Seems like rock-shoes are available pretty much everywhere. online sites for technical alpine boots are a bit more rare: mountaingear.com, mountaintools.com, and promountainsports.com all have alpine boots available online. if you're looking for just plain snowboots, try sportsmansguide.com for some screaming deals - its the only place I've found for a dependable supply of "mickey-mouse-boots" -- and CHEAP! they don't regularly sell climbing boots, but they did have a batch of euro-military-surplus lowa civettas a couple of years ago...

Bob Vandiggelen and I climbed one of those lines above a gravel pit back in '83. If I recall correctly, we climbed a pitch of 4th or low 5th class rock, then a couple of pitches of grade 2-3 ice, then some scrambly rock to top out and walk off to the north. didn't seem worth making a big deal about it, and they form rarely enough that each "generation" can enjoy the adventurous feeling of a "first ascent" if we keep our mouths shut... I'd be very surprised if Mark and Bruce haven't climbed there also...

Hey, this is fun! My thoughts? First, a disclaimer "opinions are like assholes: everyone has one, and they all stink" now for the meat: 1) if you die on a route, your ascent doesn't count 2) the climbing community would be better served if we could focus on "manners", or "courtesy" as opposed to "ethics" 3) none of us can prevent another from climbing in his/her own style, wo why make yourself and everyone around you miserable by trying? 4) hanging on gear, whether on rock, or on a tool (whether leashed or not) on ice, is aid. what aids a climber uses is a matter of personal style, and can't truly be labeled an "ethics" issue - this is PLAY, remember? we do it for FUN. 5) points for identifying the pioneering climber who asked " Vy can't ve chust climb?"

right - Kyle and I finished on White Fright. Talked with Dan, who said they could not have anchored a belay for that line two weeks ago. Well, it's obese ice now (gladly accepted the longest screws I can find to buy these days) and the direct finish is sweet climbing. Ice on the first two pitches is more than twice the thickness of two weeks ago - comforting. also - rapping down the White Slabs summer rock route - looks like that line could provide some superb-quality "classic" mixed climbing. By "classic" I mean less than vertical - no figure-4 required... Lotsa clean cracks to sew up - might have to go back for it...

Nice job guys - bigger huevos than I. The Monday party consisted of two representatives of the Old Funhogs Alpine Recreation Troupe - myself and the the ancient jedice master M2D2. After completing the first pitch (average ice thickness a weak 2") on a couple of tied-off stubbies and a partially driven z-peg, we whipped out the wienie-webbing and rapped from the first belay I could build. Old guys like us no longer bounce when we fall - we shatter. After bailing, however, we traversed around to Pearly Gates, where we found a delightful shield of WI3 thick enough to take screws. I'd put a photo here if I could figure out how... Another grandpa-type (John Tarver), soloed the Pearly Gates shield on Tuesday, I'm told. by the way, we found a red-and-white quickdraw with two carabiners at the base of the white slabs smear. I presume you guys must have dropped or lost it?