ScaredSilly

Steel caribiners have the same issues and aluminum caribiners. The only difference is the amount of time. A good example are rap station chains. Look at the wear they get from idiots who TR and lower down from them instead using their own gear and rappelling respectively. That said I agree it is going to be hard to solve unless a mfg comes up with a solution.

I should have noted that I am familiar with the summit terrain but was there in the day light. I really do not recall the chimneys you are describing, I just remember a wandering through the rock "buttress." Perhaps in my own haze as I had been recovering from a bronchial infection. However, given your experience of down climbing chimneys and running into steeper terrain does make me recall why the last bit wanders around. To avoid those steep sections as I do recall wandering to the north of the summit. That could well be what caused Greg's difficulties and why he waited. Thanks for jogging my memory. As for the south face - I saw that scenario play out on the Polish Glacier. When a climber, oddly enough from Poland did exactly that from along the top of the glacier to the summit. One minute he was there and the next he was gone. He was never found.

Indeed sad news, I read the news article above and have been pondering it. I am very curious to know of the conditions that made it difficult for them to find the descent route. It sounds as though Eric went up and over in the dark but not to the summit so I can see him missing the Canaleta but I wonder what caused Greg's difficulties as it sounds as though he waited on the summit? I can see not going far enough towards the south summit before heading down into the Canaleta and running into issues but I am a bit baffled. Sad indeed.

My year was not really all that productive so only a top three. But a top three that all included good friends, as climbing should be. 1. Mt Hood - Luthold Col. followed by Sandy Glacier Headwall the next day. Did it with a great partner who turned 65 this year. 2. Couple FA rock routes with one of my one of my closest friends. 3. A Beckey Route - the route is of no significance but my partner was, we had not climbed together for over 25 years!! It was great to share a rope again.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2245763/Booming-Ice-Chasm-Underground-chamber-beneath-Rocky-Mountains-giant-ice-slides-melt.html

Bummer about the boots. I have to echo Dane's comments. Over the years I have bought many boots. Most are gone but for some reason the $40 gaiters that I bought 15 years ago have survived more than one crampon rip and have saved the boot. Besides even boots with integrated gaiters just help some but not all of the crap out.

Not always. Two points will distribute the weight the better than one. Thus more often than not you will not shear out. For alpine ice, dual points is far better as here again the weight is more distributed which is easier on the feet. They are also more stable which is helpful as when alpine climbing you will more than likely have a pack weighting you down. I would never consider taking a pair of mono points to AK. For that matter I used a pair of old Coonyard rigids which a friend used the same (not the exact same ones) 20 years before. The seemed to get us up the Cassin just fine. To the OP - mono points have their place but are some what specialized. Find yourself a good pair of dual points and then you will at least limit the discussion to vertical or horizontal points.

Thought I would give this advert a bump for the holidays.

Talking about white outs and cornices, if you know cornices are around look for a break in the snow structure that is the transition from the windward to leeward side. No guarantee you will see it but a feature to know about as it can help keep you on the right side. It helped me stop my partner as he walked up on to a cornice and was about to continue into the void and take a 200' roll on the north side of Rainier.

Gotta love this comment: "Suggestion: check the weather forecast instead of logging on to Facebook, Dude!"

In general there are two conditions - you and your loved ones worst nightmare cause your hopelessly lost in a storm. The other condition is your friends are pissed off cause you snuck in a climb in December and banged out a route. For everything else there is hot chocolate at bar in Timberline. More to the point, if you have not been on the hill before and are not super knowledgeable with Cascade weather it is best not to be thinking about an ascent during the "winter" months.

If you can read French: http://www.ledauphine.com/france-monde/2012/11/16/escalade-patrick-edlinger-est-mort Bummer I watched him at Snowturd all those years ago. Amazing climber.

Nice !!

It is bit long but for the number routes that you will truly need it, it will be fine. If you really want to hone your alpine skills learn to climb with just a single tool on moderate terrain. Many think a second tool is needed for climbs like the Kautz it is not except maybe in a few cases. Using a second tool on climbs like Kautz can feel more secure and for some allow faster movement but then the issue is you are carrying a second tool for less than an hour of climbing. Then on the flip side you unexpectedly find a steep section and you are so used to climbing with two tools that with only one you are either totally sketchy or retreat. To give an example this spring my partner and I climbed pretty much up to the pinch on Sandy Glacier Headwall will just one tool plus a ski pole before breaking out the second tool. We moved at a nice moderate pace - thus allowing ourselves more time sleeping and time on the summit. We did the same the day on Leuthods before but never needed the second tool at all.

Damn that it sad to hear about ole Nick Dodge. I have copies of both editions of his books. I never got the chance to meet him but I tip my helmet for the work he did to catalogue climbs in Oregon. Thanks Nick.

To be honest not much of that is going to prep you for Denali. Sure it will remind you of your snow walking skills but they are all single day or weekend trips. If the weather is shit you will run down the hill and hide in the lodge and sip hot chocolate. We have all done that. My suggestion would be head some place during the winter for a week long ski/hike trip. Pull a sled, see what crap you brought was really crap and should have been left behind. It can be something as simple as some flat land terrain in the midwest so you do not spent time driving.

Don't fall??? More seriously if you have to ask are you sure you should be soloing??? Besides, you give no indication of what route you want to climb.

Like this guy???

Chris, I understand where you are coming from in terms of the huts. Believe it or not one of my suggested alternatives in the early process was to tear down everything at Muir and build a single Euro style hut (not like what is shown in the other thread something more respectful). I was not in favor of it but it was an alternative worth considering. Getting everyone to stay at it is another issue as well as the removal of the historical structures. However, in terms of the tents I am an advocating one tent per guide op (ala WeatherPORT). All tents would occupy approximately the same footprint as a permanent structure. As such, there would not be any "local" dispersion or greater impact. There would 36 people at Muir each night for the guide ops. All of them would be in an area approximately the same size as the current client hut. So from my point of view impact wise there is little on the ground difference. That is really the gist of things as there is no desire to change the tent city on the Cowlitz Glacier. Which I agree with has problems of its own. BTW is it even possible to privately camp on the dirt at Camp Muir? Not sure I have ever seen someone do that. If it is possible it seems pretty limited. As for the shitters. While I would prefer to see a blue bag system it ain't going to happen. The climbers can deal with it cause they are used to it on the upper mountain and the rangers make contact with climbers. However, you still need a common spot to plop yer pop before packing it. Further, the day hikers are the issue - not just at Muir but from Paradise up to Muir. Getting them to poop and pack is not likely going to happen. So the only real alternative are the shitters.

I found nothing in the document noting any study. However, do not interpret my comments favoring blue bags vs toilets. I was merely pointing out that it should have been analyzed or it not stated why it was not considered. To satisfy NEPA the EA must present a range of alternatives, it has not. As it relates to Camp Muir, none of the options would disperse users, everyone would be within a 100 meter radius regardless of their sleeping accommodations. As such, arguing fixed shelters would be better in that regards is specious.

The above is something that I emphasized in my comments. Administrative use of the helicopters is okay for the waste removal. And if they had to be used to schlep out the tents I would be okay with that. But otherwise treat the area as if it was wilderness - thus no new structures. Further, there is no reason for winter storage at Camp Muir - IMHO that has been one of the problems - accumulation of crap. I complained bitterly that at one point Camp Muir looked like a junk yard. Stuff should be schlepped out at the end of the season and the camp cleaned up.

Another cross post cause this shit is important Last week I spent a fair amount of time reading through the EA and would like to give folks some talking points. Before doing so let me state for the record that I am in not favor of building any new structures for storage, cooking, sleeping, etc. and that the only permanent structures should be the three historical structures plus newly built toilets. As such, you will see some bias in what is highlighted below. * Camp Muir is not wilderness but the area surrounding it is designated wilderness (basically if you are on snow you are in wilderness). Reason for non-wilderness is helicopter usage for administrative use, human waste removal (not rescue). * Toilets - the assumption is that toilets must be replaced. No analysis was done on the implementation of a pack it in - pack it out. Such, was done on the Lower Saddle of Grand Teton (i.e. the toilets were replaced with a blue bag system). No toilets no helicopter. * Public Shelter - two alternatives, remove a couple of bunks and build a dedicate cooking area (Alternative 3) or prohibiting cooking in the public shelter and convert the old comfort station now used for NPS storage into a cooking structure (Alternative 2). I believe it is preferable to have a dedicated cooking area in the public shelter as it would be move convenient and better serve climbers. * NPS Storage - no analysis shown in the EA that the NPS needs additional storage at Camp Muir. Alternative 3 shows no new storage while Alternative 2 adds new storage for that lost from converting the comfort station into a cooking structure. * Nothing would be needed if the public shelter had better cooking facilities. * Guide operations - two alternatives, permanent (Alternative 3) or seasonal temporary structure (Alternative 2). This is really the meat of the EA. Permanent structures - two are proposed. One for sleeping but partitioned into three sections. Second structure for joint cooking and storage (i.e. all guide ops would use the cooking and storage area collectively). * No analysis of having one permanent structure partitioned into two sections, one for sleeping and for cooking. Seems that a single structure would be better and have less impact. Temporary Structure - One tent (WeatherPORT) for each guide operation for cooking and storage while clients/guides would sleep in multiple tents on the Cowlitz Glacier. * No analysis on having a single tent for each guide operation that is large enough to accommodate, cooking, storage, and sleeping for clients and guides (No sleeping on the Cowlitz Glacier). * Tent space allocated was 360 sqft (120 sqft per tent) where as 815 sqft was allocated for the interior of the permanent structure. A huge disparity. * A single 210 sq ft tent has been utilize successfully by Exum Guides for 16 clients as well as for storage and cooking. Similar footage is possible at Camp Muir. * No analysis was done on the overall and cumulative affects on using three single tents. * While large tents would not blend into rocky nature of Camp Muir their impact could be minimized via the material color (gray). * There was no analysis of the cumulative impacts of the other man made objects that are within Camp Muir, solar panels, propane tanks, antenna, helicopter pad, etc.. * The overall impact of the "tent city" adjacent to Camp Muir was not taken into account (i.e. would guide tents have that much greater of a visual impact). * No analysis into moving the guide operations on the Cowlitz Glacier to be part of the existing "tent city" * No analysis on the benefits of removal of all guide operation materials at end of each season (i.e. no winter storage with full clean up of their camps). * No analysis on the impact of additional helicopter flights required with no winter storage of guide operation materials. * Current flights bring propane into the camps. What other materials would need to be flown in versus packed in/out? * Note new toilets would require 0-4 additional helicopter flights per year which "would cause a long-term negligible to minor adverse effect on park operations." A similar number of flights for guide operation materials would have the same impact. * Importation of crushed rock - no analysis was done on the chance of the importation of invasive organisms as well as using characteristically different material from the existing natural material. My suggestion is to combine the "best " of Alternative 2 and 3 to create a no new structures Alternative. Combining Alternatives is often done as such it is never the case of one or the other. * New toilets. * Public structure is improved to have a dedicated cooking area. * No dedicated cooking structure or new NPS storage structure. * Guide operations utilized tents at Camp Muir for cooking, storage, and sleeping * No winter storage for guide operations, all material is removed at the end of the season. * No importation of crushed rock. The above alternative would the least expensive option. Especially as it would shift the cost of the shelters to the guide service (i.e. I not believe the NPS has any business building and maintaining facilities for commercial operations especially when they are basically in wilderness, everything should be temporary). The only cost to the public would be the improvements to the public shelter and toilets.

Last week I spent a fair amount of time reading through the EA and would like to give folks some talking points. Before doing so let me state for the record that I am in not favor of building any new structures for storage, cooking, sleeping, etc. and that the only permanent structures should be the three historical structures plus newly built toilets. As such, you will see some bias in what is highlighted below. * Camp Muir is not wilderness but the area surrounding it is designated wilderness (basically if you are on snow you are in wilderness). Reason for non-wilderness is helicopter usage for administrative use, human waste removal (not rescue). * Toilets - the assumption is that toilets must be replaced. No analysis was done on the implementation of a pack it in - pack it out. Such, was done on the Lower Saddle of Grand Teton (i.e. the toilets were replaced with a blue bag system). No toilets no helicopter. * Public Shelter - two alternatives, remove a couple of bunks and build a dedicate cooking area (Alternative 3) or prohibiting cooking in the public shelter and convert the old comfort station now used for NPS storage into a cooking structure (Alternative 2). I believe it is preferable to have a dedicated cooking area in the public shelter as it would be move convenient and better serve climbers. * NPS Storage - no analysis shown in the EA that the NPS needs additional storage at Camp Muir. Alternative 3 shows no new storage while Alternative 2 adds new storage for that lost from converting the comfort station into a cooking structure. * Nothing would be needed if the public shelter had better cooking facilities. * Guide operations - two alternatives, permanent (Alternative 3) or seasonal temporary structure (Alternative 2). This is really the meat of the EA. Permanent structures - two are proposed. One for sleeping but partitioned into three sections. Second structure for joint cooking and storage (i.e. all guide ops would use the cooking and storage area collectively). * No analysis of having one permanent structure partitioned into two sections, one for sleeping and for cooking. Seems that a single structure would be better and have less impact. Temporary Structure - One tent (WeatherPORT) for each guide operation for cooking and storage while clients/guides would sleep in multiple tents on the Cowlitz Glacier. * No analysis on having a single tent for each guide operation that is large enough to accommodate, cooking, storage, and sleeping for clients and guides (No sleeping on the Cowlitz Glacier). * Tent space allocated was 360 sqft (120 sqft per tent) where as 815 sqft was allocated for the interior of the permanent structure. A huge disparity. * A single 210 sq ft tent has been utilize successfully by Exum Guides for 16 clients as well as for storage and cooking. Similar footage is possible at Camp Muir. * No analysis was done on the overall and cumulative affects on using three single tents. * While large tents would not blend into rocky nature of Camp Muir their impact could be minimized via the material color (gray). * There was no analysis of the cumulative impacts of the other man made objects that are within Camp Muir, solar panels, propane tanks, antenna, helicopter pad, etc.. * The overall impact of the "tent city" adjacent to Camp Muir was not taken into account (i.e. would guide tents have that much greater of a visual impact). * No analysis into moving the guide operations on the Cowlitz Glacier to be part of the existing "tent city" * No analysis on the benefits of removal of all guide operation materials at end of each season (i.e. no winter storage with full clean up of their camps). * No analysis on the impact of additional helicopter flights required with no winter storage of guide operation materials. * Current flights bring propane into the camps. What other materials would need to be flown in versus packed in/out? * Note new toilets would require 0-4 additional helicopter flights per year which "would cause a long-term negligible to minor adverse effect on park operations." A similar number of flights for guide operation materials would have the same impact. * Importation of crushed rock - no analysis was done on the chance of the importation of invasive organisms as well as using characteristically different material from the existing natural material. My suggestion is to combine the "best " of Alternative 2 and 3 to create a no new structures Alternative. Combining Alternatives is often done as such it is never the case of one or the other. * New toilets. * Public structure is improved to have a dedicated cooking area. * No dedicated cooking structure or new NPS storage structure. * Guide operations utilized tents at Camp Muir for cooking, storage, and sleeping * No winter storage for guide operations, all material is removed at the end of the season. * No importation of crushed rock. The above alternative would the least expensive option. Especially as it would shift the cost of the shelters to the guide service (i.e. I not believe the NPS has any business building and maintaining facilities for commercial operations especially when they are basically in wilderness, everything should be temporary). The only cost to the public would be the improvements to the public shelter and toilets.

One of the climbers has been recovered: http://www.nps.gov/mora/parknews/recovery-on-muir.htm

I stay at the Bahn Hoff cause most everything else is too expensive and the farmers do not like it when you sleep in their barns. Especially if you are a climber and they have sheep in there . http://www.hotelbahnhof.com PS for something sobering walk through the climber's section of cemetery.