ericb

Since it pisses Kevbone off..... Red Mountain - Rando Silver Star via SS Creek - Rando Das Toof with the wife Rainier - Kautz to DC Carryover Sloan Peak - Corkscrew Liberty Bell - Beckey Route Black Peak - NE Ridge Vesper Peak - North Face Prussik Peak - West Ridge in a Day South Early Winters Spire - SW Rib Concord Tower - West Face Cutthroat Peak - South Buttress Kangaroo Temple - NW Face Snow Creek Wall - Outerspace

If you were looking for BDs, you'd do fine on the other hand. Certain things can only be found in specialty shops, but sometimes REI (and their return policy) makes a lot of sense. I bought some Garmont approach shoes at a local specialty shop, and blew a seam out of them on the very first wearing. I took them back to store (within 4 days of purchase), and they gave me the number for Garmont CS and the address to mail them in to....basically said "good luck.....maybe they will warranty them, maybe they won't, but you will be without them 4 - 6 weeks either way". Last time I bought a pair of shoes there. I've taken climbing gear back to REI a number times, and they've never so much as blinked an eye. Say what you want, but it's the return policy that keeps me coming back....I just accept the limitations of the selection.

Agreed....unfortunately, the economics need to be there. If it's going to happen, an author/publisher need to believe that there is enough of a market to justify the investment.

There might not be a single authoritative source, but here's the bibliography page of a MIT class on the physics of rock climbing with links to a number of different papers, articles etc. Perhaps you could email the prof and see as well. A lot of the papers seem to assume a base knowledge of physics however. http://web.mit.edu/sp255/www/bib.html

someone has to do it

Have you ever set up a pulley system to pull someone out of a crevasse?

All people that don't agree with you are morons.... the true doctrine of Liberalism

Because religious conservatives are actively working to impose their doctrines on all of us through public policy. Based on your observations would you say that 57% of the state of Oregon are religious conservatives? If not, I'd say that you have more people to blame than just the religious conservatives.

Well, I was going to ignore ericb's desire to legalize man on dog, but now that you brought it up Even if I'm successful, you are still going to do time for the pitbull incident

You think???...because you have further diluted the argument about popular opinion....first marriage, then "legal unions" and now your bold assertion of "benefits". A couple of permutations more and you might be right. Nonetheless....if "the devil is in the details", as you say, perhaps you can produce some data in support of this statement, I'd love to see it

This is a pretty ironic statement coming from a guy that just gave us his testimony about why he's an atheist and his theory about what happens after death. Just what exactly did that have to do with gay marriage? Read the thread. It is about religion and government, primarily, but not solely, regarding gay marriage. Atheism and other philosophies have been a relevant topics of discussion. Polygamy has not. Why is it that JayB is not permitted to introduce the subject of polygamy to the thread if he feels it relevant to the discussion - you seemingly have the freedom to introduce the topic of the afterlife. Seems to be a double standard here. Please explain how your thoughts on life after death are relevant to the thread above. If you can make a good case for it, we will ask Jay to explain how the issue of polygamy is relevant to his point on gay marriage.....kinda like college football's version of overtime.

I am not talking about trends here - I am talking about whether those trying to defend traditional marriage TODAY represent the views of the american public TODAY.

simpleton

This is a pretty ironic statement coming from a guy that just gave us his testimony about why he's an atheist and his theory about what happens after death. Just what exactly did that have to do with gay marriage?

AE - While you might not give a fuck what they call it, the distinction is very important to some. There are many Christians that I know that support civil unions, but want to make a distinction between a legal contract, and the sacrament of marriage. Much of the liberal spew on this subject is that a vocal minority (evangelicals) are trying to force legislation that the majority of Americans are oppposed to. However, when Americans have gone to the ballot box they have demonstrated otherwise.

That's OK....I don't need to call it marriage....at least I can add my Gay Lover to my insurance benefits when he loses his job

AE....can you please point my to the poll/study you are referring to? I haven't seen it, and find it interesting that in the cases where Americans have actually voted, this has not been the case. It was not a vote, it was a poll in Newsweek. However, I have read that an albeit slim majority of Americans are OK with gay unions in a number of publications. I wish I had a better memory--but I read so much that I simply cannot remember exactly where I read everything. Plus, I'm old. AE...make up your mind....Marriage (your original statement) or "unions" (follow up) do you mean civil unions???.....There is a difference...nonetheless....Forget Opinon polls...how about actual voting results Efforts to Ban Same-Sex Marriage / Civil Unions* / Domestic Partnerships* by Constitutional Amendment - The following table shows all popular vote results regarding state constitutional amendments banning same-sex marriage, and in some cases civil unions and domestic partnerships. State, Date, Yes vote, No vote, Final outcome Far West: Alaska November 1998 68% (152,965), 32% (71,631), Yes Hawaii November 1998 69% (285,384), 31% (117,827), Yes [11] West: Nevada November 2002 67% (337,183), 33% (164,555), Yes Montana November 2004 67% (295,070), 33% (148,263), Yes Oregon November 2004 57% (1,028,546), 43% (787,556), Yes Utah November 2004 66% (593,297), 34% (307,488), Yes Midwest: Nebraska November 2000 70% (450,073), 30% (189,555), Yes [12] Missouri August 2004 71% (1,055,771), 29% (439,529), Yes Michigan November 2004 59%, (2,698,077) 41%, (1,904,319) Yes North Dakota November 2004 73% (223,572), 27% (81,716), Yes Ohio November 2004 62% (3,329,335), 38% (2,065,462), Yes Oklahoma November 2004 76% (1,075,216), 24% (347,303), Yes Kansas April 2005 70% (414,106), 30% (178,018), Yes South: Louisiana September 2004 78% (618,928), 22% (177,103), Yes [13] Arkansas November 2004 75% (753,770), 25% (251,914), Yes Georgia November 2004 76% (2,454,912), 24% (768,703), Yes Kentucky November 2004 75% (1,222,125), 25% (417,097), Yes Mississippi November 2004 86% (957,104), 14% (155,648), Yes Texas November 2005 76% (1,718,513), 24% (536,052), Yes Alabama June 2006 81% (734,746), 19% (170,399), Yes

AE....can you please point my to the poll/study you are referring to? I haven't seen it, and find it interesting that in the cases where Americans have actually voted, this has not been the case. It was not a vote, it was a poll in Newsweek. However, I have read that an albeit slim majority of Americans are OK with gay unions in a number of publications. I wish I had a better memory--but I read so much that I simply cannot remember exactly where I read everything. Plus, I'm old. Polls The most recent national poll on same-sex marriage in the United States was conducted in June 2006 by ABC News. The poll found that the majority (58%) of Americans remained opposed to same-sex marriages, while the minority (36%) support them. However, on the question of a constitutional amendment, more are now opposed than for it. The majority (51%) of Americans say the issue should be left for the states to decide, while 43% would agree with amending the Constitution.[17] Prior to this poll, Gallup conducted a poll on the issue through May 2006. The poll found opposition to same-sex marriage had fallen slightly, as other polls found a sharper dip. In the poll, when asked if marriages between homosexuals should be recognized by law as valid, with the same rights as traditional marriages, 58% (down 1 point from Aug 2005, and 9 points from March 1996) of Americans responded that they should not be recognized. 39% (up 2 points from Aug 2005, and 12 points from 1996) felt same-sex marriages should be recognized by law. If "homosexuals" is replaced with "same-sex couples", 42% back same-sex marriage while 56% oppose it. A similar poll conducted in March of 2006, a Princeton Survey Research Associates / Pew Research Center poll concluded 39% of Americans support same-sex marriage, while 51% oppose it, and 10% were undecided. In December 2004, a poll by the same company found 61% of Americans opposed - with 38% "strongly opposed". Now, less than 2 years later, just 23% are "strongly opposed". However, an identical poll taken by the same group in June 2006 found a rise in those opposed to same-sex marriage, with 56% disapproving of the practice. The most recent poll prior to this also showed opposition to gay marriages had fallen. An Opinion Dynamics / Fox News poll released April 06th of 2006. According to this poll, 55% of Americans oppose same-sex marriage, 33% support it, and 11% are unsure of where they stand.

AE....can you please point my to the poll/study you are referring to? I haven't seen it, and find it interesting that in the cases where Americans have actually voted, this has not been the case.

Much better to push your leads on Outerspace on a sunny Saturday I suppose

A 44+ year-old Chemist that spends what must be the majority of his work-day on an online bulletin board....Didn't your company just get acquired? Shouldn't you be looking busy at work these days?.....or will you just blame Bush.

Garden State?

Welcome to CC.com you chest-beating pr?*k...looking forward to more condescension from you in the future

"For those that wonder if they really need the disclaimers on Jackass "

well, let's see. on the issue of security. i would like to ask- where is bin laden? on the issue of smaller government- i would like someone to tell me why is there all time high budget defficit? looking from a historical pespective things work out the best if white house is in hands of one party and house in in the hands on the oposition. plus republican candidates fro the local elections didn't impress me too much. you know- and the two democrats i voted for- i actually talked to them. as the matter of fact Jessie Salomon went house to house in our district. So if we're throwing around rhetorical questions, what exactly was the purpose of your original post? Just wanted to differentiate yourself as a crazy liberal?